Discussion on Women's Hour about harrassment on the streets

[LadyBiscuit]

Did anyone hear this? I am absolutely furious. They had a woman from the London Anti Street Harassment campaign and a male journalist. He was saying that feminists were effectively trying to silence men and deny them a voice by campaigning against harassment.

Sorry I'm being very inarticulate but I was so cross.

I shall post a link when it's up on Listen Again.

Here's the link to have a listen.

Cyteen that makes me really angry about when you were 15 in your school uniform.

I;ve had similar experiences. One minute someone's intimidating and humiliating you by supposedly telling you how desirable you are and then the next minute they're aggressively intimidating and humiliating you because you were are supposedly undesirable. For anyone - but particularly if you're a teenager and still working out your sexuality and who you are and how you relate to men etc - I think it's really confusing as well as hurtful and scary.

Really sethstarkaddersmum? You genuinely think that of the 3 to 4 million women in London, 1 million have witnessed public wanking?

Whats more likely - 1 million wanking witnesses, or a badly run campaign distorting figures to suit their message?

ccp - I've seen a man wanking in public at least three or four times. Not always in London admittedly.

you're a bloke aren't you? Please say you are.

I remember when I was 17 I was taking my sister to a tutoring class when ahead of me about 5/6 guys around 16 to 19ish (and a dog) started cat calling an older woman across the street I just felt embarrassed for all involved.

I've had someone stop me to supposedly ask for directions only for them to be wanking in their car when I approached. I called the police. It does happen.

RamblingRosa wrote - "One minute someone's intimidating and humiliating you by supposedly telling you how desirable you are and then the next minute they're aggressively intimidating and humiliating you because you were are supposedly undesirable."

I have also been confused and intimidated by that sudden switch in attitude from supposedly "complimentary" to hostile, hateful and aggressive, when it has happened to me. It shows how false the initial compliment is, and that their real opinion of women is closer to unimportant unhuman object of contempt. It's so not "banter".

and scroll down and see the video campaign here

makes me wonder why on earth Cardiff Council have given Hooters a licence to open in the Centre

'Really sethstarkaddersmum? You genuinely think that of the 3 to 4 million women in London, 1 million have witnessed public wanking?

Whats more likely - 1 million wanking witnesses, or a badly run campaign distorting figures to suit their message?'

1 million wanking witnesses, definitely.
I rather assumed it was something most women had seen at some point, having seen it more than once myself.

What's more likely - a bloke not ever having thought about it and never had anyone mention it to him so he mistakenly assumes it doesn't happen much, or my experience and that of Rosa, LadyBiscuit and DF being exceptional?

I didn't think had agreed to Hooters?? :( They are good videos - thanks for the links DF

ccp if you've never seen a total (male) stranger wank in public you've led a really sheltered life.

I don't know anyone (female) who I've asked, who hasn't, tbh. It's extraordinarily common. I've seen it at least twice, possibly 5 times. You lose count, and you can't always see if it's real or pretend.

"Really sethstarkaddersmum? You genuinely think that of the 3 to 4 million women in London, 1 million have witnessed public wanking?"

I don't know about exact numbers, but it does happen, I think it's quite common actually, I've experienced this twice (both in London, once on the tube, once on a bus late at night), couldn't believe it when I first saw it, but it does happen. Have heard other women say the same.

I used to lurk on the Guardian Comment is Free section, and that guy from Spiked always seemed to make the most offensive arguments masked as liberal, "ooh look at me I'm so clever" logic. Actually I think he's a self important, lets-be-shocking-for-the-hell-of-it, misanthropic (never grown out of it) sixth former. Gah! I can't believe anyone would argue that it is stifling free speach by asking men to refrain from harassing women on the streets.

I live in a small rural area now, and never get harrassed in the streets, which is one of the reasons I cannot imagine living anywhere else. I used to live in London though, and it happened all the time - verbal and physical harrassment, on my own and also when my boyfriend was there. It's extremely infuriating, not to mention bloody scary.

Yep, I have. Took ages, but I did it.

you know I just recounted the 'men wanking in public' discussion to my dh and he was astonished as it had never occurred to him that anyone would do this; he concluded the reason is that it is something that is very deliberately aimed at women.
Which seems likely.

I didn't hear the piece, and I'm not going to listen as my blood pressure can't stand it!

The way random men treated me from about 13 when I was just out and about and trying to get on with stuff, is the reason that I started to self-identify as a feminist.

I am not at all surprised that 1/3 of women have seen a man masturbating in public, 1/2 wouldn't surprise me or even 3/4. I have seen it more than once as well.

Did the man on the radio say that aggressive sexual comments directed at schoolgirls were fine too, or was that not mentioned?

No I have spoken about it with my DH before - along the lines of "this is the stuff that has happened to me it is quite normal I am nothing unusual" and he was and somewhat disbelieving. not that he thought I was lying, just that it didn't fit how he thought things were, at all.

A lot of men think this stuff is rare, i think

Most woman I know have seen a stranger wank in front of them - that really is grim isn't it.

Happened to me twice. Once when I was young enough not to know what he was doing and once travelling home on the tube.

I've seen someone wank in front of me and my sister. She shouted at him instinctively telling him he was unjustified in such behaviour. I thought it would be better to ignore him so linked arms with her and walked away. He had followed us around all day. This was over twenty years ago while we were holidaying in Spain.

"Where does harmless end and abusive begin"

Excellent videos Duelling. I feel terrrible for the woman who was kicked and spat at for not paying attention to the man in the car.

But that's what it's all about isn't it? That sense of entitlement- their utter fury at not being acknowledged, because they have the right to intrude into our space, they have the right to be acknowledged, we have no right not to be bothered by them. If we say we have, we are somehow unreasonable and militant and deserve to be sworn at, spat at, kicked, punched, all the way up to raped.

And yet they take their own right to go about their lawful business unimpeded and unthreatened, for granted.

Did this bloke really say that it was fine for men to follow women?

It's not fine, it just isn't, it's really scary.