Discussion on Women's Hour about harrassment on the streets

[LadyBiscuit]

Did anyone hear this? I am absolutely furious. They had a woman from the London Anti Street Harassment campaign and a male journalist. He was saying that feminists were effectively trying to silence men and deny them a voice by campaigning against harassment.

Sorry I'm being very inarticulate but I was so cross.

I shall post a link when it's up on Listen Again.

Here's the link to have a listen.

I think its great the programme is at midnight, because hopefully Vicky can actually use the language that these men use. This might get round the reduction to "nice legs" that was used on R4.

About a year ago I ignored a comment that a builder in a van shouted at me whilst I was walking along the pavement, they threw a stone at me that hit me hard on the back of the head and actually cut my head!

From about age 11 years old I have had men leering or shouting something at me, which used to really frighten me as a child and probably helps explain why I always feel worried around groups of men or being shouted at in the street - I would never feel flattered or think of it as fun banter.

It's so patronising the way that people pass it off as "banter", as if none of us knew how to recognise or indeed do this ourselves. If I am walking home and a group of blokes start calling out to me at the bottom of my road, it isn't banter because it is one-sided and both they and I know I'm far more interested in avoiding them that interacting with them.

If I get chatting to someone on the train and we get on well and I make some jokey comment and they respond and we are both smiling and laughing, that's banter.

It's not difficult to tell the difference really:

• both sides enjoying themselves = banter

• one party feeling intimidated or anxious only to escape as fast as possible = bullying.

Banter is a jokey conversation. If it's banter, both parties have the chance for a comeback, on equal terms.
When the power balance is disturbed, it isn't banter any more.

I've been thinking about this thread so much. Most of all I'm really trying to puzzle out why men do it (yes, I know it's a power thing, but are they intelligent enough to think like that?) I'm going to have to find out! Perhaps I'll go for a walk and ask anyone who makes a comment what the hell they're thinking as they do so. Except I'll probably get called a stupid ugly bitch.

I imagine its for the same reason that some people like to speed up as they approach pedestrians who are crossing the road, because it's funny (ITO) to put the wind up people. Plus they get an ego boost from asserting themselves as being "alpha males" i.e. intimidating others and watching them adopt submissive behaviours (scurrying off, head down, being upset or scared, crying, looking around for protection etc)

It's funny, in that LRB article about the Spiked/LM crowd, they talk a lot about treating people like 'grown-ups'.
Whereas in fact here, it is the feminists who are demanding that men be treated as if they are GROWN-UP enough to know the difference between banter and harassment (rather than falling back on the little-boy 'It was only a joke' excuse) and not to indulge in the childish activity of bullying.

Why don't we have a [gobsmacked] emoticon? will have to do. I need it whenever I remember that man claiming that LASH were making women afraid, and making the streets seem dangerous, by having a map of where harrassment had taken place. (Has anyone got a link to it btw, can't seem to track it down?)

This idea that if we all go la la la fingers in ears then the streets will magically become safer - what is that about? Is he some kind of Gok Wan-alike who thinks it's "all about the confidenze"?

It all just reminds me of companies getting annoyed when the workers start to group together and talk to each other about unfair practices. There is a terror of women communicating with each other, because once we realise that we're all getting this treatment, we can be stronger by grouping together and saying "no more of this". We can boycott and strike and be loud.

Also I would point out that a man who doesn't know the difference between banter and harassment, may also be the sort of man who doesn't know the difference between sex and rape.

Decent, normal men know the difference.

Is that it? That every stage from chatting up to taking someone out to sex should be done "to" women, rather than with them. So you harrass women, or you tell them you're taking them out and where to, you order their food and drink for them, you take them home and you do sex to them? Surely not. :(

Any news on time for tonight?

Tonight's discussion is mentioned as "Is wolf-whistling women harmless fun or serious harrassment?", part of the Tony Livesey show on BBC Radio 5 between 10:30pm and 1am. I didn't find a more specific time.

I hope it might be avaiable on BBC iPlayer for the following seven days, to allow listening at a convenient time, if you miss the live broadcast.

oh FFS. Whistling isn't "serious harrassment" in the great scheme of harrassment. Hope the balance is a bit better in the interviews.

re-posting Vicky Simster's post from yesterday :

"at midnight I'm on Radio 5, debating the same thing with a guy from FHM."

oh that is OUTRAGEOUS, it is such a misrepresentation.

just imagine if none of this shitty stuff we have described here never happened and the only thing that ever happened was whistling.

Vicky is on 5live at 11pm tonight. I'm about to go to bed but she has asked people to text or call in if you are about. Hopefully some us will be able to stay awake - I don't think I can manage it!

oh i'll text in [evil]

It's amazing how much some men manage to convey in a whistle isn't it? Fancy them whistling and us interpreting is as "come here and suck my cock". It's like the over-18s version of the Clangers.

LMAO @ Clangers!!!!

I ought to call in but my heart will thump too much and I have no mobile signal here to text - can't I email them?!

Here you go ssmam: [email protected]

I really am going to bed now. Shall check the thread first thing tomorrow for updates

thanks LadyB!

email sent.
fingers crossed for Vicky.

wish they'd stop going on about debt and start on the harassment (so to speak).

though actually this debt stuff is quite concerning

ahahaha he just said "Clangers at work"

an elderly woman found a six foot long anaconda in her toilet

hope that's not what's blocking mine.
(actually I know it's not, ds1 put a hairbrush down it. Men!)

I've just emailed in