Porn

[msrisotto]

Tentative!

Um, the way I see it is that a lot of porn (I have heard) is appallingly violent and degrading for women. This stuff, ideally wouldn't exist and should be banned (how, I don't know, but ideally).

However, the porn that I have seen or enjoyed is not. I wouldn't enjoy porn that is degrading.

So, why is all porn bad? (in some people's opinions?) If it isn't degrading and is equal in its approach, for the entertainment of others, then I don't see any harm.

Is the argument that you don't get the 'good' porn without the bad?

Don't flame me please, I really want this to be a considered conversation.

ooh sunny2010 you were doing so much better with your real life examples - and you've just ruined it all with your c&p

True, TBE, 'walking' is different to being in a porn film.

sorry couldn't resist!

What do you (all here) think of Annie Sprinkle?

The whole debate is two pronged really - what it does to the 'performers' and what it does to society as a whole.

Overwhelmingly, the answer is Not much good, in either case.

The blood letting was at the Tate. Look at Kira O'Reilly, Franko B... several other performers work in that genre.

Their work is all about humanity. They're trying to express their view of the world to the audience and the audience are there to learn what the performer has to show or teach them. Same as with any other performance. I believe they work for free and do paid work.

I don't think blood letting is necessarily more abusive than spending valuable weeks of your life learning lines instead of playing with your kids. It's just different.

If you read my post again you'll see I'm talking about one night stands as well as sex in relationships. I have sex with people I am sexually attracted to. That's what makes it enjoyable. To not have a choice about who I had sex with would make it a lot less pleasant. That was my point.

Someone above mentioned that porn is deliberately addictive.
Physiologically, an orgasm floods your brains with chemicals, much like a drug does.
Like drugs, the initial highs are easier than going through the tedious business of ordinary living. Then it gets more and more difficult to reach those easy highs, so you need more and more extreme stuff.
Surely it's not healthy to have an entire society addicted to this, and laughing it off as a bit of fun.

I don't think there's anything wrong with saying that you (generic you) feel that sex is sacred or special or something you only do with people you love, or people you like or are attracted to, or something you don't do at all. All those choices are valid.

I can't however say that sex is sacred for everyone. Some people may invest a lot in it. Some may invest little.

Anyway, I must go for now. Thank you everyone for a great conversation. You're not as scary as I was led to believe ;)

TBE I have some cheek picking you up on that, when my own posts are littered with mistakes.

I was extremely anti-porn in my radical feminist days at university (cringe).

I changed my mind after seeing Annie Sprinkle talk/perform.

I do think there is a lot wrong with 'the porn industry' and lots of harm done, but IMO that does not mean there cannot be healthy erotic film.

This is a really interesting conversation between Annie Sprinkle and anti-porn feminist Mae Tyme.

sunny2010 since you are SO OPEN about your sex life - I noticed on another thread that you had 3 very particular positions which you need to be in in order to orgasm.

Do you think that this may be due to conditioning from all the porn you've watched?

Perhaps if you stopped watching porn and started concentrating on you and your sex life with your DH then you'd find you sexual relationship became closer and more fulfilling.

I have to say that I have never read so much detailed explicit info over such a short space of time about any other MNer.

I am thinking that porn is a bit like fast food - instant gratification but ultimately empty (calories)?

'Women being paid to pretend to enjoy sex which they woudn't be having if it wasn't for the money or because of coercion on camera does nobody any good at all.'

ITA. It's frustrating trying to find porn where this isn't the case. But it's out there if you dig a little.

Porn films go hand in hand with the porn culture Egypt.
Healthy erotic film is one thing, maybe it would lead to a healthy erotic society???

Dittany, actually she does challenge her. Or, rather, states that she disagrees on several key points. But I think the main point was that they knew they would not manage to persuade each other, so could focus on common ground...

what an idea...could be useful...hmm...

I have a different argument here trying to link back to the OP.

So sidestepping the argument concerning "bad" porn and "ethical" porn - I am thinking of constructing an argument as to why even "ethical" porn is bad/unhealthy:

I think that maybe because porn is sexually arousing we confuse our response to it and argue that it "must be ok/natural".

Our response is a confusion based on seeing some of the things which in real life would turn us on.

I can see how even use of "ethical" porn devalues the sex had between relationships partners. As women we are notorious for comparing ourselved to other women (eg in magazines) so what effect does comparing ourselves to people we see on camera have?

I like stoppornculture.org/home/ - it clarified for me why I don't like porn.

A poster on the MN campaign thread linked to a site which they had set up www.pornpain.co.uk.

I quite like some of the Christian resources on why porn is bad (not religious at all and some of the things said are ) but overall it's nice to read something "anti-porn" for a change eg here.