class/social standing and Feminism

[sparky159]

is there a place for working class people in Feminism?
ill answer my own post to as why im asking this.

SAF, I don't identify myself as anything. If you look at my life I fit both the stereotype for a working class upbringing and that of the middle classes. I'm proud of who I am and where I come from and feel more comfortable with its values than those I see in a lot of the people where I now live but I think that has more to do with money than class. Make of that what you will.

(Incidentally the 'outstanding' school is a crap SATs factory which I am aiming to get the dc out of ASAP, But then its mantra is 'pre school on the state...)

Sorry, 'prep school on the State'.

The reason I listed all those things about myself and my background was because I'm trying to say that it isn't always easy to see where one fits. FWIW I tend not to pigeon hole myself anywhere (with religion or politics or anything really) just because it divides me off from people who aren't whatever I am.

Apart from the fact that I don't think my nurse friends would put themselves in the same category as porters, I still don't see where I fit. Or does the fact that I own my home outright outweigh the fact that I have little means to support myself should something happen to dh? Does having working class parents and grandparents on all sides outweigh the fact that my mum is a successful businesswoman?

Swallowed, you seem to have a very narrow view of what middle class is. Whilst office workers are probably not middle class I know a fair few middle class professionals with money that would lose everything with a job loss, bereavement etc. I don't think mortgaged to the hilt means you are working class.

So what part does property prices have to pay? My parents bought their house where they still live for £10k. Dh and I bought our first house, a 1930's semi, in a leafy suburb, within walking distance of a mainline station to London, for £70k. It's now worth £165k.

So has the house price boom resulted in more people becoming disempowered? If so how much of a part has the State played in this?

Oh and SAF, I do know a professional who has lost everything, and he won't inherit because his 'middle class' status is entirely though his own efforts, not inherited wealth, attitude or influence.

And I don't think that many mortgage companies pay too much attention to 'but I'll be able to pay it off when my parents die' when someone can't meet ther payments today.

So much of it is about perception, isn't it? At teh end of our lane there are some lovely little bungalows overlooking farmland for the older people in our community. They are local authority run and to qualify to live there the person or couple needs either to have lived in the village at some point or be dependent on someone who does. There is a lovely community feel, there are delivery vans who bring groceries and a regular bus into town. My dad and I often walk past and both of us remark that we'd like to end our days somewhere like it.

Once I got talking to a lady who lived in one. She comes from the same place as me and her husband was a self-made man. They'd 'gone up in the world' and ended up retiring to Spain, but when he died she had to sell up to pay off debts she didn't know he had and somehow she'd ended up here. All she could talk about was how she'd 'come dwon in the world' and how the little bungalows 'weren't what she was used to'. Such a shame, I felt so sorry for her because she couldn't see the goodness in her situation.

On your analysis DP and I are working class.

And so is everyone we know with a few notable exceptions.

I failed to derail the tenor of this thread, didn't I? The question was about whether feminism alienates the "working class" and has now become a long exposition of how very "middle class" its contributors are

If nothing else, it illustrates the validity of the complaint.

Molly & Riven, you made great points but I feel the battle was lost before it began.

I don't understand what you are saying Grace - is it that contributors on this thread want to be middle class?

Or do you think people are framing themselves as working class in order to seem more credible?

I don't get it.

I'm going to have a nice cup of tea

I'm lost too.

Coffee time (is that less or more middle class than tea...? )

What worries me is that I'm lost and I was posting!

I think people think I'm trying to be middle class. But I come from a working class background of which I am very proud (see my thread about my great nan) and also reject the idea that I have to be any class at all, because I don't like to divide myself off from either my 'working class' or my 'middle class' friends and family.

Off to have hot chocolate now. It's organic fairtrade so that has to be middle class.

I'm saying that contributors to this thread seem very exercised over which class they belong to. To reiterate: the concept of class in the UK is alive, well and powerful - but it's far more complex & fragmented than the A-E scale, which is 70 years old.

Yummy Mummies drink organic herbal tea, I believe

Oh, I'll shove in one last post on this. Some of you realise, I hope, that by fretting over whether your house price, your dad's job or your degree makes you more X class than Y/Z class, you are actively seeking an "us & them" scenario? So much for feminist inclusivity.

I think that's right, Grace.

I grew up in an area where being 'middle class' was shameful and being 'posh' grounds for bullying. I was called a 'snob' because of my name (I'm Victoria which stood out amongst the Joannes and Susans ) and changed it when I went to secondary school to avoid the teasing. I asked my nan once whoch we were and she just said, we need to work for a living, we're working class.

But the idea that we're working class used to have my dh, who is the son of a single dad and who was raised in a council house, absolutely rofl.

I don't really care about class at all, I don't see myself as divided from other people and don't like having divisions imposed on me by society. Which is why I was interested to see where I appear to others to fall given my background.

Oooh, drink organic herbal tea, too. Yummy mummy it is then! [deluded emoticon]

Dittany
[has anyone mentioned inequality yet?........]
yes-i did-from my own perspective.
and i wanted to elaborate but had to go out.

yes-i agree with you tottally and this is what i was trying to get to be saying.

those at the top fight to retain their privalages and keep the unequal system-

things are going to get worse[things are already getting worse]

the person at the bottom is being kept at the bottom-
the person above-is now in danger of being at the bottom-
the person above them-is now in danger of being in the place the last person was-
ect ect ect.

the people at the bottom used to relitivly easily be able to get a job in a factory-
now this is harder as often these jobs are being given by people not born in this country.
these people are often being given crap money
[think exploitation]
im not saying badness of these people[its not their fault]but because this is happening-we have more talk of "they should go back to there own country-theyve got our jobs"-[people cant see whats really happening]

people further up are losing their jobs[carreers]and having to take jobs that they might of not before[if theyre lucky]

people are going to uni and hoping that they will end up with the carreer thay want-then having to go on jobseekers-

in the meantime-yep-the pot is running out-

so we have storys everywhere about how bad the underclass are.

while all this is happening-people are getting more and more discruntled with each other-
but i think that we are are being "pitted"with each other.
this is what them at the top want-
when things go wrong-what a good way to get people not to notice eh-"dont look this way-
look over there"

yes-i agree with what Milly said-
no ones will be bothered what desk/how much you earn when cuts are made.
this is everyones fight and we need to see this.