Rape within marriage

[tabouleh]

Yes unashamedly a thread about a thread.

It is like entering the bloody twilight zone over there.

Jeez there are MNers basically caring more about OP's husbands right to sex rather than believing OP and helping her.

Totally understand if this gets deleted for being a thread about a thread - but if it gets more of the feminist viewpoints onto that thread then great.

larry -I think a man who has sex with a woman who is not consenting, who has not agreed, is not engaging, is not showing signs of active enjoyment knows full well what he's doing. Any sentient human being knows whether the other person is actually welcoming and taking part or not.

This idea that unless a woman fights a man off he's entitled to presume consent is just a rapist's charter.

When I interact with another human being, whether it's sex or any other physical contact, it's easy to tell whether they welcome that interaction or not.

We all make those judgments dozens of times every day. I don't see why suddenly when it comes to sex men are assumed to be particularly stupid about this. Most men aren't and I think it's extremely insulting to claim they are.

Hmm... don't really know if all consent is verbal. If a woman strips off naked in the bedroom, lies on the bed with legs wide apart in front of a man without saying anything, I personally wouldn't blame the man for thinking, 'She wants sex.'

And I don't think we live in a society where consent is implied by having a vagina. Rape is a serious criminal offence.

No it is not, if a man is accused of rape nobody shrugs their shoulders and says, 'Oh well', it is taken as a crime and to court.
Yes, there may be insufficient evidence to actually convict, but it IS at least treated as a serious offence.

Anchor thank goodness you came onto his thread. I was going to ask if anyone could CAT you to see if you were OK, when there you were!

I read the other thread but didn't comment as DD needed feeding, but my goodness what those people were saying was totally appalling. This isn't about feminism, this is about humanity.

Glad you're OK.

Can I just ask people who are vaguely thinking of leaving/ posting about feminism elsewhere to please not go? I am a lurker on the feminism topic and it is really allowing me time and space to think about how I feel about the whole topic and the messages I want to pass on to my two very young daughters. I think I have always had feminist leanings but have never given myself the time to think about it properly; this is really helping and educating me. I suspect I'm not the only one.

Anchor thank you for posting such a personal topic and allowing such a debate to occur even if it did open up many suspect points of view. I hope you get the support you want and or need. Good luck.

I don't know as such but I'm guessing that the 'successful' ones are of the stranger-rape variety and the least successful the ones reported by wives alleging their husbands are guilty of rape?

That's the problem a lot of the time because although I most definitely do think that husbands can rape their wives, certain circumstances make it difficult to prove absolutely. There's always room for doubt in certain circumstances.
I don't think it's a case of NOT believing the woman, more a case of not being able to prove it.

marantha Thu 26-Aug-10 19:49:34
Hmm... don't really know if all consent is verbal. If a woman strips off naked in the bedroom, lies on the bed with legs wide apart in front of a man without saying anything, I personally wouldn't blame the man for thinking, 'She wants sex.'

Really - even if she said NO? And anyway the thread was different wasn't it.

What about the situation of a trafficked women, but whereby the man might kid himself that she wants sex?

sleepypjs Um, if you read my post you'll find that it includeds the words without saying anything this means NOT. SAYING. ANYTHING.

And I'm not talking about trafficked women here. I'm on about a man and woman who enter a room of their own free will.

marantha Thu 26-Aug-10 19:56:37
No it is not, if a man is accused of rape nobody shrugs their shoulders and says, 'Oh well', it is taken as a crime and to court.

.. and well I find this astounding too, obviously you are not up to date with the recent events reported of mass rape in the Congo. I find your posts to be sickening.

I'm so glad this thread is here - I read the start of the other one in complete bewilderment. I couldn't work out what it was I just wasn't getting, why people were so "oh well, that's life" about it. And Anchor - I'm very sorry for what you've had to go through, both here and more importantly in RL.

"If a woman strips off naked in the bedroom, lies on the bed with legs wide apart in front of a man without saying anything, I personally wouldn't blame the man for thinking, 'She wants sex.'

There is so much more to this base example you have given marantha.

A prostituted Woman may be in this situation day in day out, she has no "voice" as she is terrified to speak out or object to the "sex" as she will be met with more violence.

Still think that is not rape?

marantha - with regards to your little scenario of a woman laying naked on a bed, failry insinuating she wanted sex - it doesn't. She could be asleep, unconscious, ill with a temperature or something.

Anyway, who lies dead still during sex? Someone who isn't particularly happy about it that;s who. If she remains motionless then she is not actively consenting.

So according to Marantha without saying anything this means NOT. SAYING. ANYTHING.

So then in that case the women did not consent - why would you assume that she consented?

And in your answer you are surely not going to bring in other circumstance.