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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Feminism: chat

Original poster

The Roots of Misogyny

377 replies

wukter · 29/07/2010 19:15

Why is practically every human society across all times, places and cultures dominated by men?
I have read that War on Women article that MillyR linked to. It's chilling. Why is it everywhere?

I would be interested in your thoughts, or maybe there is actually a simple, widely accepted answer that I could be pointed to.

OP posts:
msrisotto · 01/08/2010 10:35

DP "I bet if you took a random 100 women off the street and asked them to name 5 influential women...cheyl cole and Jordan would be named before any female politician, if a politician was named at all..."

You're right but this is because (sexist) society doesn't want to hear what women have to SAY, only what they look like SO there aren't many well known intelligent women because the men people who run the media, don't care about them and focus on men instead.

"so the feminist movement has done fuck all imo."
That's why we feel so passionately about our cause, because it hasn't done enough (fuck all is obviously bollocks seeing as women couldn't take out a loan without a male guarantor, couldn't vote, couldn't complain about being raped in marriage etc until the feminist movement.)

Anyway, you're derailing the thread and no one wants to hear your sexist vile diatribe any more, please go be offensive elsewhere.

daftpunk · 01/08/2010 12:07

I'm in Brighton, just checked the last post on here, I really want to answer a few posts when I get home, is that ok? Then I promise I'll leave the thread.

swallowedAfly · 01/08/2010 12:12

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

claig · 01/08/2010 12:50

I don't know if Camille Paglia is still writing. I read some of her books many years ago. She argues a similar point to the one that Daftpunk makes. Has anyone read Paglia?

Original poster
wukter · 01/08/2010 12:56

Sorry I haven't been on for a couple of days - internet service can be a pit patchy around here.
I was concerned when starting the thread it would become an evopsych justification for misogyny but thankkfully there's not been too much of that.
So interesting.

OP posts:
Pogleswood · 01/08/2010 13:44

Just want to say I don't see why you should have to leave the thread,daftpunk - I do not agree at all with what you are saying but don't see why you shouldn't be able to say it,as long as it doesn't involve personal attacks on others etc.

I think that asking why women haven't achieved more historically is a reasonable point,even if the rest of us think the reason is blindingly obvious! (and downplaying Monet's gifts shouldn't be a hanging offence either,IMO)

I do wish though that when people are going on about how feminism hasn't achieved anything they would consider for a minute just exactly what their life could have been like as a woman 100 0r 200 years ago...if things still aren't perfect we need to keep on trying to change them.

Aitch · 01/08/2010 14:11

but i think that's the reason, pogleswood. talking to dp is an absolute bore precisely because she never stops to consider the answers that she gets, she just moves on to another nonsensical point (her dd recreating monet, what has that to do with this thread?) and thus hijacks the whole thing. it's attention that she wants, debate-wise she's a brick wall, as has been amply demonstrated in the past.

and later she will come on to pretend to have thought about stuff, blah blah blah, dial back some of what she's been saying re 'militant' feminists being lesbians with an image problem etc, and then make some plea for understanding, explain that she hasn't wanted to hijack and annoy (may already have done that etc) say that she wants to learn, that she has found the thread interesting (although imo much less so from the minute she turned up) etc etc etc etc etc etc

plus, re pissing off altogether, dp was on the point of being banned a couple of months back, because she had so pissed off this community with her racist, homophobic, disablist views, and in order not to be banned she promised mnhq that she would only post on music threads for three months. she should stick to her promise and stay away until her time is up, otherwise her word is nothing.

Pogleswood · 01/08/2010 15:15

Fair enough,Aitch -I have seen dp enough on other threads to know about her views,but didn't know about the promise to MNHQ - totally agree that she should keep her promise.

sarah293 · 01/08/2010 17:34

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

shimmerysilverglitter · 01/08/2010 17:49

Don't forget the pretence of being actually quite fluffy and not too bright so I am glad you have educated me , I don't mean to offend and will now nobly leave with my head held high, blinking back the tears, I know where I am not wanted blah, blah, blah.........to infinity and beyond.......

Most threads have seen with DP on follow a very strict time table, ending in this way. It makes me feel both weary and nauseous at the same time to see the same old attention seeking behaviours wheeled out time and time again. Some of her views are downright horrifying and terribly hurtful, yet she is still here.

Miggsie · 01/08/2010 17:59

OK, ignoring a certain poster who appears to be Dagenham East in a big way...I was wondering what the Native American Indian approach to women was? I know the Native American tribes did not have any idea of "property" until we Westerners turned up and started the land grabs. The Native Americans saw land as something they wandered over, but did not own. What is their approach to women and children?

Also, the tribes who had "wise women" versus and the medieval western male hysteria to demonise he "wise woman" by calling them a witch and making it illegal for women to practise medicine (which may account for women's lack of success qualifying as doctors for several centuries).

Aitch · 01/08/2010 18:03

oooh yes, vg.

as an aside, i asked on here for recommendations for books to read to a four year old. little house on prairie came highly recommended so duly read to dd1. preeeeeeetty racist, it turns out. (and boring, unless you want five pages on how to build a door latch).

ilovemydogandMrObama · 01/08/2010 18:18

Depends on the tribe. Seem to recall that Navajo/Cherokee (Hopi) have a tradition according to matriarchal lines.

Although my grandfather was actually kidnapped when he was a boy by one of the tribes (can't remember which). He stayed with them for 6 months, but was very well treated.

Aitch · 01/08/2010 18:32

really? tell us that story, ilove.

drosophila · 01/08/2010 19:51

I often wondered if Men (well straight ones anyway) had an issue with women as they felt weakened by their desire to possess women sexually. Does that make sense?

daftpunk · 01/08/2010 20:26

Seashore; It's great that you have a degree in fine art, but that doesn't mean you are the only one who can have an opinion on Monet. I haven't got a degree in fine art, but I don't really need one to know that some art is crap. Art is what ever you want it to be isn't it, it means different things to different people, surely you would understand that?....so, if I say Monet's water lillies isn't the best painting in the world, & my dd can paint almost as good, that's me expressing an opinion on art as I see it.....there are no right or wrong answers with art.

Re; my views on feminism,

I think it's easier if you just read this

It's quite long, but you really should take 2 minutes to read it.

MillyR · 01/08/2010 20:48

That is the most ludicrous and factual incorrect set of arguments I have ever read. I really cannot be bothered to go through it line by line and point out all the errors in it.

Only a person who had no knowledge of the world or social events could be taken in by such nonsense.

I will pick up on one point - cavemen were pushed out of the door first to protect their women. Those women didn't want equality.

Cavemen are pretend. They are characters off the Flintstones. People in the Palaeolithic didn't generally live in caves and how on earth does the writer know what went on when they did go into caves (often to bury people), and who did the protecting, and what women though about it? Is he the Doctor? Did he go there in a Tardis?

I will leave it up to anyone else who can be bothered to point out all the other lunacy in it.

Aitch · 01/08/2010 20:53

and anyway, Wilma and Betty were more than capable of protecting themselves.

daftpunk · 01/08/2010 20:57

I'm sorry MillyR, but the vast majority of people would agree with my link...(99% of it anyway)

Everything feminists think they've achieved would have been achieved anyway.

That is a fact.

Aitch · 01/08/2010 20:58

ROAR

daftpunk · 01/08/2010 21:07

Who invented the computer/internet Aitch?

The piece of equipment that has revolutionized your life...

was it a wicked evil man somewhere so desperatly trying to hold you back....?

Aitch · 01/08/2010 21:08

ROAR

booyhoo · 01/08/2010 21:10

DP you really are deluded if you believe that tripe. paper never refuses ink you know, anyone can write what they want. doesn't make it true.

however i don't honestly believe anyone is so dim as to believe that rubbish, so i think this is just another of your attempts to stir up a bit of a reaction. would you like a bigger spoon?

PrimroseCrabapple · 01/08/2010 21:11

we really need an ignore poster button

MillyR · 01/08/2010 21:11

I'll think you'll find that one of the people who played a part in the first invention of the computer was Ada Lovelace, but don't let the facts get in the way of your argument.