Morbidly obese but can't stick to diet.

[LEIGH350]

I weigh 25 stone and am almost 60. I have been trying to diet 40 yrs. Sometimes I have lost a stone or two, then I give up, eat normally again, and regain.

It's obvious that I have a slow metabolism but I think that just means I should eat even less and less until I find an intake that causes weight loss.

Despite being pretty much under attack from society 24/7/365, I still don't seem to be able to make myself stick to any diet. It's like there are two of me: the dieter and the rebel, and the rebel always wins.

I am currently supposed to be on Atkins. I keep to it at every meal, but then, whenever I have the impulse to cheat, I pop out (my street has shops) and grab a family sized bag of crisps, a giant bar of chocolate, or a litre of ice cream.

Afterwards I hate myself, feel a failure, sob in bed at night and make plans to re-start tomorrow and be REALLY good, no cheats THIS TIME. All night every night I play MP3s - hypnosis to make you stick to your diet, or hypnotic gastric band. But the next day I cheat.

When I was calorie counting and logging on MFP I allowed myself a treat size chocolate bar every day. I bought a bag of 12 with the intention of having one a day, the whole lot was eaten in 2 hours, so now I never keep treats in the house.

Why do I cheat? I honestly don't know, even after all these years. In the last ten years I have had three lots of eating disorder counselling, lasting about a year each time, trying to get to the bottom of it. None of this has worked.

I resent being told that I must eat only for fuel, whilst everyone around me is using food for pleasure and entertainment ("hey - let's go for a pizza!" and "break open the bubbly!" "ooh, cream cakes - yum!") Friends recount how they enjoyed the eat-all-you-like buffet they had on holiday or at a local Indian (things I never do) then tell me I have to stop overeating. I seethe when I look into the windows of pubs, cafes, restaurants, and see slim people scoffing cakes, pizzas, hot chocolate, muffins, McD's, fry-up breakfasts; I am cross when I see them buying cakes in Gregg's and eating chips in the street, because if I did that I am labelled "naughty" or told I have an eating disorder.

It's taken me ages to realise that it's not what I eat that is the problem. From observing close up the eating habits of my flatmates and friends who come to stay, I don't eat more than the average person. It's the effect it has on my body: clearly, I am still eating too many treats for my particular slow metabolism.

My GP says "lose weight or die young". I've had the same from everyone in my life for the past 30 years and some of them are getting really pissed off with me because they don't think I am taking their advice.

All my stats like BP, cholesterol, etc are good and I am not diabetic. I take no medication. Ironically, many of the slim people who issue these dire warnings to me about my health are themselves on insulin, statins, BP pills, etc, and some who used years ago to warn me about how I was cutting my life short by being overweight have since died of various illnesses, at ages younger than I am now.

GP has made an appt for me to begin the long series of meetings and consultations that lead to a gastric bypass. First appt is in a week.

I have read about this and it is a barbaric mutilation. I have read about several women who died of starvation afterwards. I don't have any digestive issues. Having a bypass causes chronic problems for the rest of life (reflux, vomiting, diarrhoea, constipation, indigestion, malnutrition). Even if I came out of surgery OK, the thought of never being able to eat a proper meal again for the rest of my life (bypass is irreversible) makes me feel I would rather die young but enjoy my food.

My basic diet is healthy, currently two big bowls of salad a day with mayonnaise and some kind of meat or fish or seafood on top. No sugar, and no wheat. I am also teetotal and I never touch fizzy drinks or sweeteners. But then I ruin it all by having "impulse treats": either sugary (ice cream), wheaty (cake or chocolate biscuits), or a family bag of crisps. I do not keep any of these things in the house - ever. I HAVE to go out and buy them.

Each day I get up with the intention to just have the healthy meals and not to give in to the cheating impulse. Probably 4 days out of 7 I fail.

After 40 years I still cannot work out why I am self-sabotaging my every effort to diet. Especially as I now cannot walk more than 50 metres, get upstairs, and my world has become extremely restricted as I cannot fit into cinema, plane seats etc. Predictably, I am still single. (Yes there are specialist dating sites for men who like obese women but they are fetishists who would sabotage a woman's attempts at dieting.)

I am literally making myself disabled, and un-dateable and I don't know why.

I want to live a normal life, get about and have holidays and a great love life, and yet why oh why isn't even all that proving to be an incentive to stop cheating? I want to live again, but it's like I am not prepared to pay the price of constant deprivation.

I am not sure if this is far too complex an issue for a dieting board made up of people who are just a little bit podgy from baby-weight, but I post in the hope that there is someone else out there who feels the same or is in the same position or has some advice on how to escape from this self-imposed prison.

It is silly to imply that everyone who is a normal weight is constantly vigilant and lives on a restricted diet, when I see with my own eyes over decades that this is not true. Far from "lying to myself" I am extremely honest with myself and with everyone

Who said that, or anything like it? Most people are not vigilant at all, they just eat normally. You think you are extremely honest with yourself but then you say that you don't eat any more than anyone else, even though you then describe all the ways you do eat more than anyone else.

I'm not encouraging your self loathing (which is a rude and unnecessary thing to say) I'm encouraging you to be honest and admit at least to yourself that you do not eat a normal healthy diet. You KNOW this. Don't attack me for saying what you already know to be true.

The slow metabolism line is the oldest one in the book. You don't get to be and stay 25 stone by eating salad. You KNOW this.

I honestly don't intend to criticise you, Leigh. I quoted the post where you said "if I cheat." Like you'd already accepted it as a possibility.

It's great that you have two weeks worth of healthy food in the house, of course it is! But it was you who posted "if I cheat in the next two weeks I will swap to low calorie" - thereby suggesting you'd already considered the prospect of another binge and come up with a backup plan should that happen.

Apologies if I'd misconstrued what you wrote.

I don't mean to lose weight by the way, I mean because walking is a pleasure (to me anyway).

Thecat ~ Yes, we are similar. Every night I go to bed with a plan not to cheat. Every morning I wake up firmly resolved. Same as you. Then at the point of craving a binge, I just don't give a shit. Then when it's over, the self-hatred. It's almost like losing part of one's consciousness, being taken over by a binge-monster. We are not alone.

I am glad you picked up on the point that everything in life seems to be geared to people enjoying consuming food. Literally everyone who is trying to arrange to meet me whether social or business or hobbies asks shall we meet for drinks/lunch/dinner/coffee and cake etc. I cannot recall anyone ever asking me to just meet "for a chat". It's always around food, all the time. Even the ladies I swim with all go to the cafe afterwards and indulge in hot chocolate and cakes. I never have, not once in all these years, so I miss out on the social side of it.

I cannot tell you how many social occasions I have missed out on thru turning down invitations to go for pizzas, curries etc. I have tried going along, with the plan to eat only XYZ, but once I am there, I get carried along by everyone else and end up having what they have. Every single time my relations visit me they INSIST on going out for fish and chips. I even tried cooking a low fat curry once, but when my sister and hubby arrived they sneered at it and overrode my wishes and out we went for a three-course lunch. (They are all slim, by the way.) When I protest they always say "Oh, come on, you can go back on your diet tomorrow!" I guess they are pretty selfish to expect me to go on and off my diet when it suits them.

Also, I always feel mean when people visit and there's never any biscuits or anything to offer them but a cup of tea, like I am not a good hostess. I do explain that I dare not keep anything like that in the house but you can see they are disappointed.

Yes I agree Leigh that meat, fish and vegs were the diet of our ancestors. But that's not causing your weight gain nor making it difficult for you to lose weight.
It's all the processed crap which you are binging on, so if you accommodate a small amount of those in your day, you will slowly lose the feeling that you need to eat all of it in a single seating. I hope you get what I mean. Thanks for not taking offence. Each time you feel like binging, post here and someone will hold your hand and hopefully motivate you enough not to do it.
Change your mindset, you seem intelligent so divert your OCD tendencies to your health. Become obsessed about your health. Be your own best friend because you too deserve all the good things in life and you are well worth it. Start by making small changes. Spend your money on counselling, on fixing what's inside of you and the outside will be a beautiful by product of it.
Have loads of nutritious and filling food in your house so you can eat whenever you feel down or upset. If you like ice cream, invest in an expensive ice cream maker and make your own healthy and nutritious version. You can do it. When you are this low down, you can only go up.

As part of the path to bariatric surgery you will (or at least should be) offered an assessment by a clinical psychologist.
I think this is where the key for getting better control over your eating is likely going to be - some form of talking therapy. Personally, I'd invest time and money and effort in to that before considering surgery which will stop you from enjoying a 'normal' meal for the rest of your life (and I have known people who have lost, then regained vast amounts of weight after bariatric surgery - Mars bars can be blended apparently... ).

Here's my (not specialist) advice:

• Stop 'dieting' - the phrase 'I am on a diet' suggests depriving yourself of something you might like and is just soul destroying. It's not working for you anyway.

• Stop calorie counting. Again, it's not working for you.

• Make a list of things other than food that you might consider 'treats': a bit of guilty pleasure TV, a bit of a book, do your nails, buy a new lip stick or whatever. Reward yourself with something that does not go through your mouth.

• Move. Move a little bit more. Now, exercise is unlikely to solve your weight problem, but it will increase muscle bulk, it will make you feel better and it will increase your energy. By 'exercise' I don't mean 'go to the gym', but walk a bit further, take stairs, do some squats in front of the TV or whatever.

• Read this website - it has changed how I regard food. This is NOT 'The Atkin's Diet' - you can make it work by reducing the amount of carbohydrates you are eating, increasing the fat and protein intake in your diet. There is NO restriction on food, no forbidding foods (although obvious processed sugars are not a great idea), it is delicious and filling and your can snack.

• consider intermittent fasting. I could not be bothered with 5:2, mainly because I do not want to count calories on the fast days and 500 calories just sounded so mean and nasty . So I do 16:6. I eat from lunchtime til about 8pm, and fast overnight until lunch. I am less hungry, less seeking biscuits/chocolate, the weight's come off and stayed off and I feel generally better.

V best of luck.
You can do this, but have not hit on what works for you. So keep thinking what made you 'fail' in the past and how you could tweak things.

I found reading up on insulin resistance and how fatty tissue is metabolically active and we, as a society, are making ourselves ill with insulin overproduction (and how insulin spikes lead to blood sugar crashes with subsequent sugar/carb cravings) a real eye opener. I now enjoy full fat Greek yoghurt and it is lush. Best eating I've had in my entire life.

I think your good insight will stand you in good stead. Don't keep repeating tactics that have NOT worked for you. And don't be hard/down on yourself - it does not change a thing and just makes you feel worse --which leads to comfort eating). Learn to love yourself enough to want to make good food choices for yourself - because feeding yourself with GOOD food is a treat

Mumsknitter ~ "I don't think you will have any success until you actually want to be thin more than you want the food."

Yes, I have often thought that.

Alice ~ Ah thank you for saying something nice about me! Yes I can come to terms with being overweight. If I were 15 stone or even 18 stone, which to some women would be a living nightmare, I was be so so so happy! I could fly, fit in chairs, ride a bike, etc. But 25st , especially at my age, is actually disabling.

It's true what you say about vices. My best friend drinks a half to a bottle of wine every evening, and smokes, yet because she is slim she does not attract the criticism, name-calling and social disabilities that I do. Nobody nags her about her vices, as they don't show on her person.

Oh, golly, sorry about the essay

A diet won't help you right now OP, you need to see counselling for binge eating disorder. You binge on sugary and carb heavy foods (wheat) as you are depriving yourself of them in your 'normal' diet and then the craving is insatiable. Sugar and carbs can be eaten as part of a healthy diet, carb free, no sugar diets and the like are dangerous and in the long term unsustainable.

Carb free is impossible and yes, not compatible with human metabolism.

Bluegrey ~ "if you accommodate a small amount of those in your day, you will slowly lose the feeling that you need to eat all of it in a single seating."

That means returning to the calorie counting MFP diet, which can incorporate a bit of junk within the calorie allowance.

THANK YOU for your very kind, insightful and generally wonderful post. I can see that you are absolutely right. I do seem to have OCD tendencies and so maybe this can be diverted as you suggest.

"Be your own best friend because you too deserve all the good things in life and you are well worth it."

For some reason, that line just made me bust into tears and sob like a baby!

"When you are this low down, you can only go up".

True, I have hit rock bottom, I think. Thank you again, a million times over.

That means returning to the calorie counting MFP diet, which can incorporate a bit of junk
Noooooooo! DO NOT DIET!!!! Have any of your diets worked? Just change your eating permanently. Accept your current food intake is shit. Change it forever! Don't count calories.

Who is nagging you? How bloody rude. I can see that being that weight might restrict your choices to a large degree, but there are other people out there who have similar restrictions and manage to accept themselves and enjoy the things they can do. I'm not saying it isn't hard, but I think demonising yourself is not getting you anywhere, it takes up a lot of time and energy, and you are where you are.
Its totally up to you what you put in your body, and not a moral issue in the slightest (unless you are binging on baby pandas) so really no one else's business unless are asking for help (as here).

Pacific ~ I enjoyed the essay, thank you for all the trouble you went to. I feel guilty now to report that I already know about/have tried/am doing everything on your list. For example I do 16/8 but my eating window is roughly 2 hrs earlier than yours. I visit that DD site a lot. And I do already "treat" myself with non food treats.

I did used to lift nylon weights when watching TV but seem to have stopped. (I have gigantic biceps.) Thanks for the reminder, I will re-start. I also like the chair-aerobics videos on YT but, again, seem to have forgotten to do them. I think I have sunk into such misery that I have just stopped doing any kind of exercise stuff. It's hard to get motivated when you feel so low.

Alice: you are one in a million, literally. Shame more don't think like you. Who nags? Family, flatmates, friends, doctors. Er, that means, literally everyone in my life!

My brother subjected me to a full 59 minutes' telephone lecture last week. He repeatedly insisted that I MUST have this gastric bypass, or I might end up in a wheelchair - horror of horrors! I must confess, it did start making me think about all the people who already are confined to wheelchairs for various reasons, and still lead fulfilling lives. Also, people who are blind/deaf or missing a limb, whatever. Funnily enough, his ranting made me see for the first time that, like you say, I really DO have a choice. I don't have to have the surgery. I don't have to even diet. If I want I can end up totally immobilised by this. Once I feel I have a choice, I can choose to save myself!

Titchy: "DO NOT DIET!!!! Just change your eating permanently. Don't count calories.

I don't get it. Whatever I choose to do, to consciously eat this way or that, is a diet.

On very low carb diets, you don't count calories, but it's still a diet.

Unless I literally eat whatever randomly takes my fancy from one meal to the next, I am going to be on one diet or another.

Even if you say to me, just eat healthy, whole foods and no junk, that is still a diet because there are still foods I will consciously choose to eat and others that are on the banned list.

Surely you don't mean literally a free-for all?

OP, I don't think you'll find the answers you are looking for here; you seem to have a very black and white mindset about food and why you are obese. People will naturally want to share what works for them but it must feel like we're not hearing what you are trying to say.

All I really wanted to add was - in my mind, food is just food - it's the combination and quantity that one eats that dictates weight. There's not really such a thing as "diet food" and "cheat food". It is all just food of varying nutrition. I have small children and we try not to brand food as 'treats', don't talk about 'stealing food', 'naughty food', even 'healthy food'. We just talk about nutrition. So far, my kids have really excellent portion control and sensible attitudes to food. I wish my parents could have done the same (child of the 80s; starving children in Africa etc etc).

And I do also want to add that as someone who varies between a BMI of around 23 and 26, I certainly don't eat mindlessly - I can't eat as much carb as I could consume without thinking, certainly can't have cake or chocolate or sugary drinks often. I am vegetarian so no meat either. I don't eat out often and I exercise, hard, several times a week. I'm sure this sounds impossibly smug but I wanted to counter your assertion in your OP that loads of people can get away with this. It's very rare, but just the other end of the metabolism speed.

I am also not in any way thin - athletic at times perhaps but never thin. I am mindful of what I eat and it isn't easy.

I had bulimia as a teenager. I work hard to think about nutrition, but especially about taste and quality over quantity. It really doesn't sound like you enjoy your binge episodes; I wonder if it would make any difference to ask yourself 'what would I like to eat now?' Am I enjoying this? What does this taste like?

But more probably I think you need to accept that maybe this isn't a food issue or a weight issue - this is about a feeling inside of you that food can't actually satisfy. Perhaps you need to find a process (yoga, mindfulness, CBT, hypnotherapy, acupuncture, binge eating group, something) that will help you explore all of this.

Good luck. It's ok to be kind to yourself, you know

Running has posted far more eloquently than me, but I'll try and explain....

A diet is a set of rules - eat between these hours, eat X calories, eat X sins, don't eat carb etc.

People diet, lose weight, then think 'success - go me' and promptly go back to the way they ate pre-diet and the weight piles on again.

You're entire thinking around food has to change forever. Eat healthy (you don't). People around you who are slim don't diet, they just eat what they want. But they don't over eat because they have no need to. They're not on a diet so they don't need rewarding for three days, or whatever, of healthy eating. Food just...is.

If you want to have a big bowl of fruit and fibre for breakfast and a pepperoni pizza for lunch do it! I suspect that once you realise food isn't this big thing in your life that you have to control and can't, your focus will change and you'll want to eat more normally.

Do you know what, the thread has moved on and I re-read my post and it isn't nearly as helpful or nice as I wanted it to be. So feel free to skip it!

(Also, I love exercise, and find it much easier to be sensible about eating when I am also exercising as I don't want to undo the hard work).

I'm sure I'm not the only person on here who would be happy to say - I'm rooting for you. I think you can choose your own happy path.

I'm reading Shrill by Lindy West - it's an interesting perspective. I think there is something fucked up in our society where we vilify fat people (especially women). It's not like people eat too much food then go and run people over, or steal (generally) to fund their habit. It's actually a pretty benign addiction in its impact on others. I'm sure someone will bring out the healthcare argument, but that's a complex one (like you say many of your thin friends have been ill).
I get that your loved ones are worried, but they have no right to try to control you, their worry is their own emotion to deal with.

Eating real food is 'a diet' in this sense of the word 'diet': "human need to eat a varied diet'. It's NOT about restricting yourself or about 'good' or 'bad' foods, but the overall balance must be right and appropriate for your lifestyle.

Sorry, must dash, will be back

Don't cry Leigh. One way or another we all have hang ups. We all carry scars, issues and bagages accumulated over a lifetime. I appreciate your kindness towards me as well. You have already started by posting here. I will post in a bit as doing bedtime

Thanks again everyone for all the posts. I am reading everything, carefully, I promise, and usually twice.

Nameless, I really am surrounded by people who eat what they like, and none is significantly overweight. I do spend enough time with them to see what they eat not just one meal but habitually.

BTW the brother who nagged me on the phone, without even realising the irony, then said he'll be "down to see me soon" and he'll be taking me out for "a slap up meal" for my birthday. When I said, "No, you know I am on a diet" he said (again) "Yeah, but you can re-start that the next day". He isn't fat and nor are any of our other siblings, all of whom enjoy parties, buffets, restaurants, cakes, chocolate and biscuits and alcohol on top. It's weird you don't believe they exist, but they do and I have known them all my life.

Leigh, I didn't say they don't exist; I said they were rare. I do know a few people. I know a couple in particular who are very slim but can put away huge meals. They are also people who don't eat if they aren't hungry and regularly go without eating much for most of the day. That's why the whole picture is important - the month, not the day. The overall nutrition, not the food on your plate.

Honestly, it isn't magic and you aren't being cheated by your body. All those people who aren't overweight must be expending more energy than they are consuming, either through exercise or appetite (are you certain they are actually as slim as people are designed to be, too, as we have as a society lost perspective on what optimum weight looks like?). Barring people at the extremes of metabolism or illness, as a rule, that's all it is.

Leigh, I feel for you and wish you luck. I think there has been some really good advice on this threat, and lots to think about. Trying another therapist sounds like a very good idea, as you obviously have a very complex relationship with food to unknot.

When you turned down invitations to social events in order to avoid eating, did you end up eating the equivalent that week at home anyway? It's really sad you felt you couldn't go.

You talk about what slimmer people eat but I suspect your flatmates/family may be misleading you unintentionally, you may be making inaccurate assumptions about their routine eating behaviour, or they may be freakishly fortunate. They truly don't sound typical. As other pp have said, although you claim thinner people are not 'constantly vigilant' and 'living on a restricted diet', most of us do use actually restrict ourselves to some degree. I don't know anyone that would binge on such large portions of food as those you list. I'd go out for a pizza, but I'd eat lightly at the next mealtime and make an effort to eat more healthily the next day. I don't eat out much so when I do it may well be a slap-up meal, but that doesn't mean I could eat like that every week without putting on weight. I don't use mayonnaise or dressings, or drink fizzy drinks, I like to have one small square of chocolate with my tea for the taste. Sometimes I eat chocolate cake but I feel a bit gross if I eat too much (polished off the last one in three days so I will be conscious of not buying another for a while). I don't usually keep crisps in the house, and now I buy food online I don't drop into shops very often for extra treats. It helps that I am stingy and think of chocolate bars as a huge waste of money as well as unhealthy. I started eating more healthily in my 30s and I found that unhealthy food began to taste less pleasant - I think processed, fatty and sugary foods create a kind of addiction which wanes after a while. I also try and walk at least a mile or two a day; if I don't I'll make more effort in subsequent days.

So although no-one to look at me eat would think I was 'denying myself' and I'm don't see myself as 'on a diet', my general diet is varied, mostly healthy - and something I am conscious of. I think that's fairly typical. I don't perceive it as a restriction, just being sensible. Those thin people you see eating muffins are probably using moderation somewhere else to make up for the calories. People see me eating heartily and being slim, but don't see the whole picture of my lifestyle.

I've talked about myself because I hoped it might help you to hear from the other perspective. I suppose I'm trying to say that it's not all about luck and unfairness. Perceptions obviously play a large part in your personal attitude to food - perceptions of what other people do, what a 'diet' is etc. I really think working through this with a really good therapist and some of the advice on this thread might help you to work out a balanced pathway for you.

Your family sound unhelpful, especially since you've already called them up on this. Sorry your brother was not more sympathetic, all I can suggest is trying to make plans with them which don't involve food/drink, until you feel more comfortable.

It sounds as though you are very successful in other areas of your life, and hopefully that encourages you.