Morbidly obese but can't stick to diet.

[LEIGH350]

I weigh 25 stone and am almost 60. I have been trying to diet 40 yrs. Sometimes I have lost a stone or two, then I give up, eat normally again, and regain.

It's obvious that I have a slow metabolism but I think that just means I should eat even less and less until I find an intake that causes weight loss.

Despite being pretty much under attack from society 24/7/365, I still don't seem to be able to make myself stick to any diet. It's like there are two of me: the dieter and the rebel, and the rebel always wins.

I am currently supposed to be on Atkins. I keep to it at every meal, but then, whenever I have the impulse to cheat, I pop out (my street has shops) and grab a family sized bag of crisps, a giant bar of chocolate, or a litre of ice cream.

Afterwards I hate myself, feel a failure, sob in bed at night and make plans to re-start tomorrow and be REALLY good, no cheats THIS TIME. All night every night I play MP3s - hypnosis to make you stick to your diet, or hypnotic gastric band. But the next day I cheat.

When I was calorie counting and logging on MFP I allowed myself a treat size chocolate bar every day. I bought a bag of 12 with the intention of having one a day, the whole lot was eaten in 2 hours, so now I never keep treats in the house.

Why do I cheat? I honestly don't know, even after all these years. In the last ten years I have had three lots of eating disorder counselling, lasting about a year each time, trying to get to the bottom of it. None of this has worked.

I resent being told that I must eat only for fuel, whilst everyone around me is using food for pleasure and entertainment ("hey - let's go for a pizza!" and "break open the bubbly!" "ooh, cream cakes - yum!") Friends recount how they enjoyed the eat-all-you-like buffet they had on holiday or at a local Indian (things I never do) then tell me I have to stop overeating. I seethe when I look into the windows of pubs, cafes, restaurants, and see slim people scoffing cakes, pizzas, hot chocolate, muffins, McD's, fry-up breakfasts; I am cross when I see them buying cakes in Gregg's and eating chips in the street, because if I did that I am labelled "naughty" or told I have an eating disorder.

It's taken me ages to realise that it's not what I eat that is the problem. From observing close up the eating habits of my flatmates and friends who come to stay, I don't eat more than the average person. It's the effect it has on my body: clearly, I am still eating too many treats for my particular slow metabolism.

My GP says "lose weight or die young". I've had the same from everyone in my life for the past 30 years and some of them are getting really pissed off with me because they don't think I am taking their advice.

All my stats like BP, cholesterol, etc are good and I am not diabetic. I take no medication. Ironically, many of the slim people who issue these dire warnings to me about my health are themselves on insulin, statins, BP pills, etc, and some who used years ago to warn me about how I was cutting my life short by being overweight have since died of various illnesses, at ages younger than I am now.

GP has made an appt for me to begin the long series of meetings and consultations that lead to a gastric bypass. First appt is in a week.

I have read about this and it is a barbaric mutilation. I have read about several women who died of starvation afterwards. I don't have any digestive issues. Having a bypass causes chronic problems for the rest of life (reflux, vomiting, diarrhoea, constipation, indigestion, malnutrition). Even if I came out of surgery OK, the thought of never being able to eat a proper meal again for the rest of my life (bypass is irreversible) makes me feel I would rather die young but enjoy my food.

My basic diet is healthy, currently two big bowls of salad a day with mayonnaise and some kind of meat or fish or seafood on top. No sugar, and no wheat. I am also teetotal and I never touch fizzy drinks or sweeteners. But then I ruin it all by having "impulse treats": either sugary (ice cream), wheaty (cake or chocolate biscuits), or a family bag of crisps. I do not keep any of these things in the house - ever. I HAVE to go out and buy them.

Each day I get up with the intention to just have the healthy meals and not to give in to the cheating impulse. Probably 4 days out of 7 I fail.

After 40 years I still cannot work out why I am self-sabotaging my every effort to diet. Especially as I now cannot walk more than 50 metres, get upstairs, and my world has become extremely restricted as I cannot fit into cinema, plane seats etc. Predictably, I am still single. (Yes there are specialist dating sites for men who like obese women but they are fetishists who would sabotage a woman's attempts at dieting.)

I am literally making myself disabled, and un-dateable and I don't know why.

I want to live a normal life, get about and have holidays and a great love life, and yet why oh why isn't even all that proving to be an incentive to stop cheating? I want to live again, but it's like I am not prepared to pay the price of constant deprivation.

I am not sure if this is far too complex an issue for a dieting board made up of people who are just a little bit podgy from baby-weight, but I post in the hope that there is someone else out there who feels the same or is in the same position or has some advice on how to escape from this self-imposed prison.

OP first if all, VERY well done to not have binged fur the last 3 days!!! I'm sure it took a lot of effort in your part to do so! So we'll done and remind yourself you HAVE done it.

Second, I'm not in such a hard place than you are but can relate to what you say. (As in I'm not as heavy as you are but I'm just at the border if being obese and being denied surgery by York NHS)
I do, in particular, relate to 'my diet is fine. It's the snacks in between that arent' because that's how my diet us arm and what I'm trying to change.
My issues are different (I eat sugary stuff when I'm exhausted because it gives a quick rush of energy and allows me to finish the day) but yes when I don't have snacks, my diet is much much better than most people.

I agree you would better with having 3 meals a day (or if you have two, skip the last meal of the day). But I'm not going to tell you what I believe us the 'best' diet. Im more interested in what you have done that allow you but to binge eat during these last 3 days. What made the difference for you and could you sustain that long term?

OP. Eating such a "good diet" is not healthy. Everything in moderation. Now maybe for now, you do really need to cut back on the junk completeely to stop yourslef eating more, but if you attempt to have a completely healthy diet you'll simply forever see yourslef as controlling yourself, and then rebel.

What struck me is your constant reference to "treats" food full of fat and sugar is not a that - it's a poison. It's quite literally killing you, so first of all you need to chnage your mindset to stop seeing these foods as treats and instead accept that you have a compulsion to poison yourself. I don;t knwo where that comes form, and I'm definitely not blaming you for having that compulsion, but until you acept that that's what it is, you can't hope to overcome it. And note, I say, overcome, not control.

I would recommend www.amazon.co.uk/Have-Your-Cake-Skinny-Jeans-ebook/dp/B00B9JKNBC because you need to alter your brain, not your body.

And no, I'm not your size and never have been. But I do have a medical condition that means certain foods trigger me being very ill. And for years I ate them anyway. And now I look back and can't understand why.

TJ I have done that too. And actually still do it sometimes.
The reason for me is easy, the 'pain' I was getting from eating those foods was worth the pleasure from eating those foods. in my case, I'm talking about cheese and dairy. I'm French and French cooking is full of dairy. Going no cheese/dairy meant accepting that I would never eat 'french' food again. It was nearly renouncing some of my heritage so really big. I can see how the OP would find it equally hard to renounce to some of those foods. It's not being stupid.

I'm not saying it is "stupid" but it is disordered thinking. And yes mine is certain types of indigestable fat, so cheese is one of my triggers too, and sitting round a table at the end of a meal with a cheeseboard used to be a big part of my life. I found it hugely difficult to give up at first because even though I knew I'd be in agony the next day, I wanted it that evening.

But it's been over a year now, and I finally don't miss cheese. And i definitely don;t miss the rush to the loo in the middle of the night.

I absolutely agree with the PP who have said that you can say "but my diet is healthy" all you like but you seem to forget that the 2000-odd calories of junk you're eating is just as much your diet as the "healthy" stuff.

I also said on page one, which you ignored, that you seem to be very angry with "skinny" people and what they eat. Like it's somehow their fault that you are overweight and it's not fair. That seems to be a very strange way to look at it.

I know it's been said before, but it sounds like you are in complete denial of your food consumption.

It reads like you only see your healthy diet as your real intake, and the binges don't count. But you say they occur 3-4 times a week. You then attack people for pointing out that you eat extra and so the diet you are following won't work for weight loss. You seem to have real issues around food in that you appear to think intention should equal outcome. Your healthy diet is intended and you feel so aggrieved that you have to stick to it that you think it should work. It comes across that the binges, because they are unintended and just happen don't firm part of your weekly eating habit in your mind.
You said to your brother you can't go out for a meal because you're "on a diet" and so in your mind this would be damaging to your diet, rather than thinking you could go out for a nice meal which would probably be less calorific than a binge.
You are dogged about remaining on this diet even though it demonstrably isn't working for you, but don't seem to catch on to the reasons why, and dismiss and berate posters for pointing this out.
I really mean this in a kind way but I think you need to work on your food issues with a professional because until you have a healthier relationship and thought process around food you will probably continue to struggle.

You're doing good, OP. Just starting this thread is an achievement.

The salads aren't making you fat at all! Bingeing is! (you already know this)

Lower carb and higher fat is the way forward for you, OP.

You don't need to cut carbs out completely!! Carbs are found in varying amounts in fruit, veg, pulses, bread, pasta, squashes. They each affect your metabolism differently. Your triggers, like me and many others, is bread and chocolate.

If I eat a plate of pasta, I'm hungry. If I eat a chickpea salad with veggies, olive oil, chicken and feta, I'm not.

I suggest you stuff your face on good stuff. Pretend the 6 pack of Mars bars doesn"t exist.
Also, think how cheap they are! If they are that cheap, there can't be anything good in them!

Good luck OP.

Also, forget about dieting, the word obviously has connotations for you.

Call it a lifestyle re-haul instead.

BitOutOfPractice The difference though is that by saying 'your diet is awful, look at all the crap your are eating' you are taking a very negative outlook on what the OP is doing and concentrating on what she can not stop herself from doing.
By saying' what the OP is eating during meal time is great but the snacking/binge eating isn't' you are
1- highlighting what the OP is doing RIGHT (and she is doing a lot of it right)
2- remembering that she knows what a healthy diet looks like- it's not that she is stupid or doesn't know
3- that the issue IS the binge eating which has major psychological component and can NOT be approached in the same way than someone who is always eating junk and has no idea what a vegetable or a healthy diet looks like.
It's also remembering about the huge MH side of things. If someone was depressed, no one would go on about 'just putting yourself together and getting on with things'. So why are people saying to the OP 'stop eating junk. You are deluded about what you are eating. Just start dieting and reduce calories and you will loose weight'? The OP is basically bulimic. If the OP had posted saying she is bulimic rather than she is binge eating/can't stop herself, would people still tell her who 'to just stop eating'? I don't think so.
So why is it OK on this thread?

I'm not a MH professional but I disagree. Everyone on this thread has said OP needs to address why she binges (sorry to post as if you weren't there btw OP), but also to recognise that what someone eats has to be considered as a whole. Denial does no one any good.

It's like someone who is clinically depressed saying they can't be depressed because they laughed at a film yesterday. But of course they can. Emotions and diet are a whole, not separate parts of someone where the good cancels out the bad. Once someone is able to recognise that they are depressed, that their moods are not normal, then they can seek help and try and address the issues.

But living in denial won't help.

Oh my, how did this all become so adversarial?!

Different weight loss approaches work for different people

I think I have issues that are deep and maybe subconscious that I am too scared to dig up and examine. Many traumas in childhood inc sexual abuse, lack of love, loneliness.

IME while understanding where certain issues may stem from and exploring just why your relationship with food is what it is might be interesting and helpful to an extent as an explanation as to why you are where you are, please do NOT use past events as an excuse or a get out clause: past events are not a 'verdict', do not allow past events to define you. Don't give them more power over you than they deserve

Like most problems with disordered eating, this is not about 'food = fuel', it's about an emotional component and THAT's what needs addressing, not whether Leigh loses weight with Weight Watchers, or LCHF, or low fat or whatever way.

I think that I, too, am terrified of hunger.
Yeah, well. Maybe you need to 'practice' feeling hungry and learning that Nothing Bad Happens when your tummy rumbles . Most of us have never experienced true hunger and are incredibly unlikely to ever experience dangerous lack of food. I had a great-uncle who survived a PoW camp in Russia and who used to scold us kids if we came running in from playing, shouting "mum, I'm hungry!". He'd say that we did not know the meaning of the word, and I suspect he was right.

I think you should pick and chose from this thread what you find helpful. People far cleverer than us (I suspect!) are disagreeing and arguing with each other over how to solve the 'Obesity Crisis' and how to get so many diseases related to a Western lifestyle reduced. So I really don't think we here will crack that particular nut...

OP, I am nineteen stone and binge eat. I think what Thinking has been saying is spot on and I have personally benefited from what she has to say. I think you've been very hard on her when she's just trying to help.

I think it became adversarial when OP called people nutters and such for pointing out her own words to her, for some reason. Different approaches may work for different people, but pretending you eat a good diet while binging massively is not one of them.

pretending you eat a good diet while binging massively is not one of them.

Yes, that's true, of course.
But it's an all too common delusion and one I may have used myself at times. A 'healthy diet' most of the time can be sabotaged by 10 minutes binge eating....

Clearly, I've not found the 'nutter' comment . Exasperation does funny things to people.

Lots of references to WW/SW on your thread, so here's my two penn'orth.

On 31 May this year, my DH of 18 years and I went to our first SW meeting at the village hall a few hundred yards from my front door.

We have both been overweight all our adult lives (I will be 41 in Oct, him in Jan), and it got to the point that he left the RAF before being forcibly discharged due to his weight and lack of capability to complete the annual fitness test for his age group.

He is 5'11" and that evening weighed 25st 5lb and I am 5'5.5" and I weighed 17st 12.5lb.

Last night I was really hoping for a 2lb loss because that would have given me 2st since 31/05 but it was only 1lb

DH on the other hand has lost an awesome 4st 1lb. He was also looking down the barrel of WLS, has had blood clots in his lungs, struggled to walk far or stand for more than about 30 seconds without complaining.

Now we are both much better off but what a lot of people don't seem to understand is that exercise doesn't really play that much of a part in weight loss - even whole body stuff like swimming or the 1-2 miles a day we walk. The weight loss comes from the food (or lack of actually) and the improvements in cardio vascular and other areas of fitness are down to the exercise. DH is really nervous to do anything more than our walking and, to be honest, so am I because I know it will be hard work but now the lack of tone in my stomach muscles is affecting my view of myself.

My belly has reduced quite a bit but it is not that noticeable until I tense the muscles in my abdomen and I look pot bellied again.

The best thing about the likes of SW and WW is the support unequivocal, non judgmental and there through the friends you make all through the week not just on weigh in night.

Do you have a group nearby? I would highly recommend SW and you can even commit to 6 or 12 weeks to focus your mind and tell yourself that you want to get your money's worth.

Msmouth where did I say that? In fact I said the opposite. I said that op should look at the junk (her word) she eats as a whole with the rest of her diet

I am no psych. But I imagine the OP is often quite angry, as manifested on here, and this is likely to be the root of her distress. No amount of dietary advice will really work until she has found peace with the past, IMVHO.

Can I just say how hugely helpful I have found this thread - op has really made me think. Thank you.

Leigh how are you today?
Hopefully you went another day without a binge. One day at a time.

Sorry posted too soon.
One day at a time.
Adding one day at a time is much easier than going cold turkey on it.

As far as motivation, I know this sounds weird but picture yourself binge-free. What will you do? How will you eat? What will you wear? Who will you hang out with and how will you talk? Picture yourself exactly how you would like to be if you didn't ever binge. I know you pictured yourself going on holiday, catching a plane, meeting someone etc. If you really badly enough want to be that person in your mind, you'll have even just a smidgen more motivation not to binge. Instead of tackling the huge issue of losing weight, focus on just getting through the day and the rest will fall into place.

Good luck for today.

Hi OP. Hope that you are OK today and that you are still reading the many replies on here. I suppose that weight is one of those issues that most people have a view on and if it's worked for you, you want to see if you can advise others.

I also hope that don't mind a different approach. I have read your posts and you are obviously intelligent, articulate and know all the rules about eating etc. I drew comparisons with your description of binges with my own recovery from alcoholism. I won't go into detail but, in the same way, I didn't keep the stuff in the house and would get up each day full of optimism and hope that I would get through the day without giving in. For me, the first drink was a choice but the next 100 were not. That is what seems similar to you. There are millions of people who are able to go out and have a glass of wine and enjoy it, but I am not one of them. I used to try to turn myself into one of these "fortunate" people, and convinced myself that I could moderate, but ultimately after years of repeating the same consequences over and over again, I had to accept that I could never moderate.

Your binge foods seem to be chocolate/ice cream/very sweet based. A small taste probably sets off a huge craving of wanting more which may be impossible to satiate. I would suggest a blanket ban on these foods - and a huge and relaxed enjoyment of all the other foods on your list. I had to realise that I was effectively allergic to alcohol because of the effect that it produced in me and the ability to consume until there was no more.

Hope that this has neither offended nor derailed and wishing you all the very best of luck.

With my work hat on, I discovered yesterday that binge eating is classified as a disorder in the US and they can prescribe Lisdexamfetamine (which has also just been approved in the UK for adult ADHD).

This stuff isn't cheap at all, and it's a controlled substance, but it might be that the OP could get a referral to a psychiatrist regarding the binge eating, discuss whether medication might be suitable, and try something pharmacological like this in order to break the cycle. You might be looking at a Harley Street consultation, however, with someone specialising in this and similar areas.

Just a thought. An alternative to expecting the habits of a lifetime to change just through the power of thought.

PS You should still follow all the good advice on here anyway, as you will need new mechanisms to stay in control once you are off any medication.

I really do think it would be worth you reading 'brain over binge' all the way through as you sound like the author and what she does to stop is entirely doable.

I over eat although not really binge but the book is really interesting and to be freed from the 'it is not about food' and 'you need to deal with all these other emotional issues before you can eat less' is revolutionary!
It IS about food and you can stop.

Boffin, personally and professionally I'd have huge reservation about using an amphetamine for the treatment of disordered eating, approved by the FDA or not. Certainly not without having tried everything else, particularly specialist psychological help, and not without knowledgable specialist medical input.
My only, v slight experience of using stimulant drugs is in the treatment of ADHD and as any other powerful drug, they are of course not without downsides.
I know you know that and that you were not implying that meds would be a quick fix, but felt the need to say this, sorry

OP you said yourself that It took a 1,600 a day regime to shed 2lb a week, which I did, losing 40lb in 20 weeks.

2lbs a week is a steady, healthy weight loss. I don't know what silver bullet you're after but that's proof in itself that calories in vs out does indeed work?