Morbidly obese but can't stick to diet.

[LEIGH350]

I weigh 25 stone and am almost 60. I have been trying to diet 40 yrs. Sometimes I have lost a stone or two, then I give up, eat normally again, and regain.

It's obvious that I have a slow metabolism but I think that just means I should eat even less and less until I find an intake that causes weight loss.

Despite being pretty much under attack from society 24/7/365, I still don't seem to be able to make myself stick to any diet. It's like there are two of me: the dieter and the rebel, and the rebel always wins.

I am currently supposed to be on Atkins. I keep to it at every meal, but then, whenever I have the impulse to cheat, I pop out (my street has shops) and grab a family sized bag of crisps, a giant bar of chocolate, or a litre of ice cream.

Afterwards I hate myself, feel a failure, sob in bed at night and make plans to re-start tomorrow and be REALLY good, no cheats THIS TIME. All night every night I play MP3s - hypnosis to make you stick to your diet, or hypnotic gastric band. But the next day I cheat.

When I was calorie counting and logging on MFP I allowed myself a treat size chocolate bar every day. I bought a bag of 12 with the intention of having one a day, the whole lot was eaten in 2 hours, so now I never keep treats in the house.

Why do I cheat? I honestly don't know, even after all these years. In the last ten years I have had three lots of eating disorder counselling, lasting about a year each time, trying to get to the bottom of it. None of this has worked.

I resent being told that I must eat only for fuel, whilst everyone around me is using food for pleasure and entertainment ("hey - let's go for a pizza!" and "break open the bubbly!" "ooh, cream cakes - yum!") Friends recount how they enjoyed the eat-all-you-like buffet they had on holiday or at a local Indian (things I never do) then tell me I have to stop overeating. I seethe when I look into the windows of pubs, cafes, restaurants, and see slim people scoffing cakes, pizzas, hot chocolate, muffins, McD's, fry-up breakfasts; I am cross when I see them buying cakes in Gregg's and eating chips in the street, because if I did that I am labelled "naughty" or told I have an eating disorder.

It's taken me ages to realise that it's not what I eat that is the problem. From observing close up the eating habits of my flatmates and friends who come to stay, I don't eat more than the average person. It's the effect it has on my body: clearly, I am still eating too many treats for my particular slow metabolism.

My GP says "lose weight or die young". I've had the same from everyone in my life for the past 30 years and some of them are getting really pissed off with me because they don't think I am taking their advice.

All my stats like BP, cholesterol, etc are good and I am not diabetic. I take no medication. Ironically, many of the slim people who issue these dire warnings to me about my health are themselves on insulin, statins, BP pills, etc, and some who used years ago to warn me about how I was cutting my life short by being overweight have since died of various illnesses, at ages younger than I am now.

GP has made an appt for me to begin the long series of meetings and consultations that lead to a gastric bypass. First appt is in a week.

I have read about this and it is a barbaric mutilation. I have read about several women who died of starvation afterwards. I don't have any digestive issues. Having a bypass causes chronic problems for the rest of life (reflux, vomiting, diarrhoea, constipation, indigestion, malnutrition). Even if I came out of surgery OK, the thought of never being able to eat a proper meal again for the rest of my life (bypass is irreversible) makes me feel I would rather die young but enjoy my food.

My basic diet is healthy, currently two big bowls of salad a day with mayonnaise and some kind of meat or fish or seafood on top. No sugar, and no wheat. I am also teetotal and I never touch fizzy drinks or sweeteners. But then I ruin it all by having "impulse treats": either sugary (ice cream), wheaty (cake or chocolate biscuits), or a family bag of crisps. I do not keep any of these things in the house - ever. I HAVE to go out and buy them.

Each day I get up with the intention to just have the healthy meals and not to give in to the cheating impulse. Probably 4 days out of 7 I fail.

After 40 years I still cannot work out why I am self-sabotaging my every effort to diet. Especially as I now cannot walk more than 50 metres, get upstairs, and my world has become extremely restricted as I cannot fit into cinema, plane seats etc. Predictably, I am still single. (Yes there are specialist dating sites for men who like obese women but they are fetishists who would sabotage a woman's attempts at dieting.)

I am literally making myself disabled, and un-dateable and I don't know why.

I want to live a normal life, get about and have holidays and a great love life, and yet why oh why isn't even all that proving to be an incentive to stop cheating? I want to live again, but it's like I am not prepared to pay the price of constant deprivation.

I am not sure if this is far too complex an issue for a dieting board made up of people who are just a little bit podgy from baby-weight, but I post in the hope that there is someone else out there who feels the same or is in the same position or has some advice on how to escape from this self-imposed prison.

You sound like someone I know. Everything in separate mental boxes. Eating healthily treated as their normal even though their portions are still too big. Treating the binges as their abnormal. Not looking at the whole picture together. Being convinced people who maintain a lower weight have high metabolism or a secret eating disorder. Convinced they have a slow metabolism.
Maintaining 25 stone weight takes a pretty high amount of calories. Losing a lot of weight takes a long time and it is not linear weight loss. Maintaining a lower weight requires a new way of eating - eating less than you used to. I've lost 6 stones. It took a long time. Ive kept it off (within 10lbs variance) for about 4 years. I have had to change how I think about food and eating. I don't eat crap/over eat and think well that's that and eat crap for days/weeks/months.

I am a binge eater. I still do it. I then say well, that's that then and go back to eating properly, making positive choices to eat less for a few days and my weight stabilises. If I hit 10lbs over my ideal weight I consciously cut back.

There is no secret apart from wanting to be a healthy weight more than you want to eat a boatload of food. And when you screw up draw a line and carry on. For as long as it takes. When you stick at a weight for ages, well done, you've proven you can maintain. But if you want more weight to come off, less food needs to go in.

If you cannot walk into a shop without spiting your thinner self you need a therapist who will help you get to the bottom of why you feel you can't/don't deserve/don't want to be thin.

I want it. I want to be active. I want to feel good clothed and unclothed. I want to lower my health risks. I deserve to feel good and look good and like myself. I don't manage it 100% of the time but I manage.

I hope you can too.

Not that rare. Here on MN I saw a thread asking if all the slim MNetters restricted their foods and there were hundreds of replies, and at least HALF of them said they ate whatever they wanted in whatever quantities, the full range of junk and alcohol etc and remained thin. I bet it's still on here somewhere, take a look.

Leigh, you do sound so very self-critical and self-censoring - please stop being so down on yourself

The reason vast swathes of the western world have a huge problem with obesity (no pun intended) and people cleverer than me are struggling to come up with a universally applicable solution is that our lifestyles have changed beyond recognition from even 100 years ago (I don't think that there is any need to go back to cave man to see that my great-grand parents ate/cooked/worked differently from me).

Our bodies are designed to survive famines. Of course there are genetic differences but provided equal health everybody can put on and lose weight. Appetite regulation is a different thing altogether, as is the whole unholy connection between 'eating' and 'reward', so yes, yes to therapy for you.

We have easy access to far too many far too cheap calories and very few of us work physically really hard for our living. That's it in a nutshell.
Also, as we get older (and usually move less) we have less muscle bulk. Muscles are more metabolically active, so even sitting still a muscular individual will use up more energy than a less toned person.

You brother sounds well-meaning but ultimately is sabotaging you, isn't he? Again, he is using a 'slap-up meal' as a reward thing when it is not what you really want or need. Alternatively, you could find a way to go out, have a lovely, sociable meal with your family, but don't overeat - I think that is how 'naturally slim' people do it. I have a naturally slim brother - v v annoying he is too . He just does not seem to think about eating/food much. He eats when he is hungry and stops when he is full - simples
He is tall, and long of limb and even when he puts weight on he looks slim in a well-cut suit bastard. I luffs him dearly, really, btw.

So, be kind to yourself. LOVE yourself - unconditionally. You are great the way you are. Work on your relationship with food.
Have you ever looked at Overeaters Anonymous? Many people find the whole group setting and meeting with fellow sufferers very helpful.
I do think much as you can tweak what you eat, your solution is likely in finding a way to change your relationship to food.

Fwiw, I work with addicts in my line of work from time to time. The vast majority of people who have a problematic relationship with alcohol, drugs, even cigarettes who want/need to stop, have several attempts at stopping and relapsing until they find something that keeps them stopped. Relapsing is NOT failure, it is an opportunity to learn what doesn't work for you and changing it.

physiqonomics.com/eating-too-much/

This is a good article.

Ach, Leigh, don't believe half of what you read on that thread

Many an ED is hiding behind the more socially acceptable 'I am vegetarian/vegan', 'I am low carbing', 'I don't eat foods starting with 'C'' or whatever.

Appetite regulation however is fascinating. Look up ghrelin for instance, one of the hormones that regulates appetite.

Leigh focus on simple nutritiously meals. You have already got a good foundation with the meat, fish & salad. Add some wild rice, brown rice, nuts, butter, avocados, pulses, spices, herbs, olive oils etc. and just focus on building up good eating habits. It will take you time & won't be easy as you will have to fix your relationship with food but slow and steady wins the race and the winner takes it all. You can do it.

The best way to do this is to plan ahead and leave nothing to chance. Make meal plan guides that lay everything out for you, leaving no room for the binge eating. Then, once you mastered how to eat healthily while following these meal plans, you can take the stabilisers off and start eating intelligently without binges and diet madness.

Think of it as learning to drive or to swim. It takes time to perfect your skill. By re learning how to eat you will create patterns and habits in your own behaviour.

The weight loss is secondary. Right now, you need to focus on rebuilding your relationship with food. I appreciate these will not happen quickly but in time if you persevere, they will. Don't focus on the past or on the future. Just stick to right now. Right now at a time.

Don't think of it as a diet. Think of it as your own project Leigh. In fact call it project Leigh and when others try to get you away from it, just say nah it doesn't appeal to me. You don't have to apologise or explain to anyone why you are taking control of your health. No one needs to know. Keep saying no.

I am sorry for the rushed post but know that I am silently rooting for you and I know you can do it. You can do anything you want. You really can. The sky is your limit. Patience, perseverance and many tears will fix you. You owe it to yourself to be the best version that you can be. I hope you can find a good counsellor who will hold your hand and make you see that you can do it and your past doesn't define your now.

and at least HALF of them said they ate whatever they wanted in whatever quantities, the full range of junk and alcohol etc

I expect that's true - but the big difference is that most people don't want to binge eat crap.

They'll have the odd donut, a weekly take away, a packet of crisps at lunch, but the vast majority of people actively do NOT want a entire tub of ice cream or entire pack of biscuits.

There really is no magic secret. They don't have super fast metabolisms or anything, just a healthy view of food.

I will admit I haven't read the whole post but I had weight loss surgery it's far from barbaric and meant I regained my life however if you aren't able to address why you eat it won't work anyway as you can cheat it

The slim people who don't think they restrict their food must eat to appetite. If their intake was measured it would fit what their body needs to maintain their weight.

You aren't doing that. And haven't been for your entire life, you have either been gaining or losing. You could start by learning what you can eat to maintain your weight within 5lbs. Once you've done that for 3 months try eating a bit less. Very slightly smaller portions for 3 months. See what happens.

The weight loss is secondary. Right now, you need to focus on rebuilding your relationship with food.

This 100%.

Ok Leigh; I won't argue the point or the science. Even supposing that's true, what other people are eating has no bearing on you really. This is your life, your body, your decision making. Only you can live it for yourself.

Other people are smarter, fitter, faster, more talented, more hard working than me. I have pretty much figured out that that doesn't take anything away from me - I still have to live my own life.

It sounds to me like the way you feel about eating is like me deciding to self-sabotage, say, my exams, or my salary, just because other people achiever higher grades or are paid more. I'm still the only one who has to live it.

How did you get on today?

Is there anything we could say that could help? A lot of MNers seem to be instinctive 'fixers', me included. Maybe what you actually need is a hug :)

NameslessEnsign has it.
Your body, your choices, your metabolic rate. Make whatever choices you want. But you are making them and it makes no difference to anyone else and their lives.

Op I really understand what you mean by treating yourself with food. I'm not overweight but I could be quite easily if I let myself.

You said in a previous post money isn't an issue. Would liposuction work?

FWIW, it is a huge thing to take ownership like that. It's not simple and it's not easy. It is necessary though if you actually want to change.

Hartlot ~ I agree with most of what you say but there is one thing in which I know you are definitely wrong: "Maintaining 25 stone weight takes a pretty high amount of calories."

It does not.

When I was calorie counting and logging every biteful religiously on MFP I worked out my TDEE, BMR and all that, and it said my daily intake should be 2,400 calories to maintain my weight, even if I laid in bed all day. I was swimming between 3 and 5 times a week at that time, giving me a maintenance calories of between 2,600 and 3,000.

Anyway, I stuck to 2,000 and I didn't lose anything. Then I went down to 1,800 and only lost 1lb a week. It took a 1,600 a day regime to shed 2lb a week, which I did, losing 40lb in 20 weeks.

2,000 is not a "high amount of calories". It was at least 400 and up to 1,000 less than what the dieticians said my body needed to maintain my weight and yet I maintained on that 2,000.

According to calorie theory, on 2,000 I should have lost weight, because of this deficit, but I didn't.

I should point out that, to make sure I was counting calories correctly I only ate foods that had the calorie count on the packaging or for which the calorie count is known and regular, like a boiled egg or a banana. I didn't have things like home made lasagne or something that is very difficult to measure the portion sizes accurately.

Mostly I ate sandwiches, crispbreads, ham, boiled eggs, skinless, fatless chicken breasts, low fat yoghurts, and loads of fruit. This is how I know for a fact that my calorie counting was not so inaccurate as to have messed up the diet plan. If it was "out" it cannot have been out by more than, say, 100 calories a day at worst.

I was hungry the entire time on this diet by the way, and never seemed to stop nibbling all day long. And my knees hurt so much from the wheat that I was on painkillers every single day. I'd be a bit lost returning to it, for it was the wheat (Warburton's wholemeal 400g loaf) that filled me up.

Hi Leigh you are getting lots of good ideas here by the sound of it so I won't go on at too much length I hope. I recognise some of what you say, particularly the push to finish something that's sitting in the house. I have also found Atkins helpful in the past but I do agree with others that it's not really that long term - I did 7 months in the past.

I have found another barrier to be fear of feeling hungry - a belief somewhere that if I'm hungry that's wrong and needs fixing. Tbh initial hunger pangs will go away again, or something tiny will satisfy them.

My feeling is that we are alike in just wanting to eat, and in a way to clear all the food away by eating it. When I did slimming world I ate 8 muller light yogurts in a single day and didn't lose a pound.

I do personally find exercise helpful simply because while I'm exercising I'm not eating. Again, sweating and panting are normal things to do, though I do get that doing it in public is horrible. Yes swimming will make you hungry - see above, don't be afraid to be hungry, another meal will come along soon enough. Meet your family for a walk not a meal.

I am dieting I have to say - myfitnesspal is straightforward as you know, though I do find I have to basically ignore about 80% of the calories I buy through exercise. It's good for retraining my portion control.

STOP COUNTING CALORIES OR EVEN LOGGING WHAT YOU EAT.

Sorry for shouting.

Also, I agree, stop comparing yourself to others. Therein alway unhappiness lies, whether it's money, looks or talent.
You are you, and that's alright.

You say you were 'hungry all the time' - you either were under eating or your brain's perception of hunger is distorted. Are you feeling boredom/ rejection/trying not to think about food etc as 'hunger'? Thirst? Anxiety? (stress hormones can cause stomach churning which can feel like an empty stomach)

I do think you could do with adding some fat/protein to your selection of foods.

Your metabolic rate at 25 stone would have to be pretty fast to digest the amount of calories you are taking in. I don't mean that nastily - I am 17 stone and have just lost 2 by following a vegetarian low carb plan to stop myself from going onto medication for diabetes. I've not eaten any sugar for 2 months, no bread, no pasta or rice and it's actually now gotten to be very easy most of the time, as i don't feel that overwhelming urge to binge. Stopping eating sugar is sooooo hard, but once you've acheived it, it's an awful lot easier to control that bingeing urge. I am on medication for high BP and before this new WOE i had no energy, constant thrush, slept for 10 hours at night and was constantly fighting infections. You're very lucky you are healthy at the moment, but trust me, these things creep up on you when you least expect it. I hope you get your head in the right place to do it.

Thanks AGAIN to everyone.

Blue grey made me cry again with her post, esp the line " You owe it to yourself to be the best version that you can be."

I am now going up to bed to have a hot shower, shave my legs, cut my toenails and massage Palmer's oil into my body in an attempt to love and pamper myself a bit and then I am going straight to bed.

I didn't binge or have any junk at all yesterday, nor today. In fact the last time was Saturday, when I had a family bag of crinkly crisps.

Thanks again everyone. I will log back in tomorrow to see any further posts. Goodnight x

Good night, sleep well.

Did you know that 8+ hours sleep also help weight loss?

I wonder if the difference that you notice when you're socialising or eating with other people, is that they eat when they're with other people but you eat alone.
Could it be because you're overweight you feel ashamed to eat much with others. It's sad because as you say, food should be social and you're missing out. Is there anyway that you could set yourself rules that you do eat in social circumstance but you don't binge alone.
I know it won't be easy. I binge too sometimes. But it could teach you to enjoy food rather than almost punish yourself with it.

All dieting comes with deprivation, though - I mean, that is the point. All dieting is based on eating less than you want to

I have started a local diet club in Norway, and I have lost a stone since May. It is supposed to be slow to be sustainable.

I eat MORE now than I did before I started dieting. I dont think of it as dieting, but "reprogramming my body" and my eating habits.

It is supposed to be low in refined carbs (potato, rice, pasta, bread) and also low in fat - 1 gram of fat is 9 calories and takes longer to burn than 1 gram of carb (4 calories).

I eat every 90 minutes until dinner. I am not supposed to feel hungry at any time of the day. This increases my metabolism, keep it going, and stabilises my blood sugar, so I dont crave chocolates or cake at all.

3 rye crispbreads with low calorie cheese for breakfast. 90 minutes later a banana or on apple. 90 minutes after fruit I have lunch nr1 (veg soup, wholemeal roll with salmon or egg, salad with tuna), and 90 minutes later lunch nr 2 or a low fat / low calorie yoghurt. Or one of those bircher muesli youghurts. Dinner is just 400 calories. 200 g meat or fish or chicken, handful of wholemeal couscous, and heaps of veg. No mayo. I am supposed to have 1600 calories per day, you may need more based on your weight and age (It is calculated based on age and weight and how much exercise I do)

Anyhow, the point is that my cravings stopped when I started eating so often, little but often, and maybe this could work for you?

It is not meant to be a fad, but a lifestyle change with healthy and yummy food stick to.

Hi Leigh,
I very very seldom comment on posts but your post really resonated with me. You describe my experiences to a tee. It's the absolute worst place to be, and feels impossible to escape from.
I was 24 stone at my heaviest, and ate in the exact same way as you. Joyless, compulsive, lonely. I've been following a low carb, high fat way of eating for about 6 weeks now, and it seems to be working - I agree with your thoughts on nutrition- and I am also very sensitive to carbs following years of binging.
However the thing that has really made a difference and helped me is going on anti depressants. I have been taking citalopram for about 3 months and for the first time in my life I don't feel utterly terrible about myself. Don't feel like a failure. They've helped me out of the pit I was in and I am actually able to resist binging, and to stick to a healthy way of eating. I feel like the real me at last.
Above all else I just want to say I know how you feel. You're not on your own, you're not the only one who feels that way. You sound like a funny, intelligent, thoughtful woman, someone I'd love to call my friend.
Best wishes and solidarity Leigh.
Deborah x

I'm glad you've taken some helpful advice from this thread.

It's made me feel very sad reading it. You sound very intelligent and likeable, and what you've been describing really resonates with me from my own history of bulimia. I am not bulimic now and I haven't been for a very long time, but I remember feeling very scared a lot of the time. I found hunger a terrifying emption. Typing that is odd, because I know that hunger is a sensation, not an emotion, but my ED mind confused the two.

Hunger terrified me and was more than a physical feeling. It was hunger for love, acceptance, mental health, control, a quiet mind, and I stilled the feeling by binging and purging, and by restricting food.

Food is so emotive and touches so many issues that can be painful. Especially around control, love, our families and self image. I think food issues are very common, especially among women.

anyway the point of my rambling post is just to say that I am a healthy weight and I still really relate to a lot of what you said. I was lucky to get good therapy and hospitalizations to help me. None of the 'healthy eating' classes helped me to improve my relationship with food. The only thing that worked was coming to terms with a lot if painful and frightening underlying issues.

I think it might be the same for you and I wish you strength

I've read most of this thread, and haven't seen any suggestions from people as to whether LEIGH suffers from a candida infection... However, the solution is to go low carb and low sugar,,and that doesn't seem to be working for her.

Also being intolerant of gluten makes it almost impossible to lose weight.

Have you tried going gluten free?

I am intolerant of both, but crave sugar and wheat HUGELY. Once I'm off it for a few days, I'm fine... But one mouthful of yummy sugar, and it's like a switch. And it's almost impossible to switch it off.

Good luck with it all. And don't forget to love yourself. Even on the bad days.