Anyone want to join a thread about Eating Less.

[bumblingbovine]

I read this book by Gillian Riley a while ago and it made so much sense. She has a website here
www.eatingless.com

I may even go to a seminar but I think the book has most of whast you need in it. There is a chapter free on the website to get an idea of the tone

She talks about stopping overeating and says that focussing on weight is completely counterproductive. I really would like to try this but thought it would be useful to have some support.

I have been thinking about this for a while but issues with my ds have got in the way. The other thread on fat/overeating has reminded me

I will need to dig the book out agin but the key thing she talks about is setting some realistic limits on the what, the amount and when you will eat and then sticking to them.

The idea is to "stop overeating" not to "lose weight". In fact you can stop overeating much more easily than you can lose weight and it happens quicker.

So my food plan would be to

Eat 3 balanced meals a day (one portion only - no seconds)every day. This would be
Breakfast between 7am and 9am
Lunch between 12pm and 2pm
Dinner between 6pm and 8pm

To have a maximum of 1 snack a day which should be of a reasonable size and reasonably healthy

Dessert if eaten should be fruit or yoghurt during the week but can be something less healthy at the weekend for dessert if I want it

Success would be sticking to the food plan each day. Weight would not come into it.
everybody's foodplan would be different to suit them

We could check in every few days (or daily) with how we have done or if we are having trouble with cravings and wanting to eat more.

Does anyone want to try this?

Hi Ppeatfruit
Thanks for the post. I completely agree that PM is very good on the sel-esteem side of things. Building that up is a massive part of his programme. I think he is great and I believe that what he says is very very true about eating when hungry/stop when full. I just could not do it frankly.

I have a weak full signal and I have 30 years of ignoring it anyway so when on PM I spent so much time worrying whether I was hungry or not and obsessing about whether I should eat or not that it just became another way to let eating and food run my life. I do of course think that the chewing 20 times is a great idea and I am trying to do that at the moment too.

I think stopping overeating for me will be a gradual thing as I learn to trust myself around food, I will gradually reduce my portions even more as I will see it as my choice as opposed to something I "have" to do.

can I join?
This sounds right up my street - when it comes down to it I just want to eat like a normal person. A sensible, healthy and balanced diet. I don't want to feel like I am missing out so am happy to include delicious things, but in moderation. I don't want to have seconds, I'd like to be happy with just a reasonable amount of food.
I picture my grandmother sitting down to her sandwich and fruit and cup of tea for lunch - it all seems so moderate and not greedy!
Several years ago I read the French women book and I enjoyed that idea - I don't have a copy of this book - don't really want to get obsessed and actually read it. Should I?

handbagandshoes.

Of course you are welcome. You can probably get a good idea of what this involves from the links I have given to the GR website but the book really explains it better

I am still doing OK today in that I have not had seconds, just 3 meals I haven't had a snack yet today, though I may have some fruit/yoghurt later.

The meals were probably still a bit on the large side and a b it carb heavy but I am doing quite well I think. I certainly am still feeling less tired and down. I'm afraid I went back to read that horrible "fat" thread. should stay away as it is seriously bad for my mental health and it makes me pretty angry and that tends to set off food cravings for me "what doesn't?"

A really good indicator of my mental state is that I was forced to go clothes shpopping today to get some summer tops. Clothes shopping usually brings on the self-loathing with a passion. I manged to stay serene though so I am keen to keep this state of mind going even if I dont lose any weight.

I am thinking to going to one of the seminars in London or Birmingham. Just have to save up first

How is everyone else getting on? I seem to be the only one posting. It is helping me though so I am going to carry on posting for a while.

hi just reading this thread and some of the ideas really appeal to me, I'm totally fed up with 'right I'm going to start a diet and lose 1st by the holidays, then last maybe one day ! Then go and binge for a couple of days and end up feeling worse than before. And constantly repeat this cycle....... One thing though are you allowed to weigh yourself? and if so how often?

Hi Bumblingbovine just been reading through your thread and wanted to wish you all the very best.

I have struggled for a few months with this whole issue of food and eating (sorry that should be about 20 years!).

I had a thread on here which a few people chipped in some helpful comments to about compulsive eating. No idea if this applies to you at all, and no wish to suggest it does but thinking about it is has been part of my journey.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/big_slim_whatever_weight_loss_club/1191480-Anyone-struggling-with-compulsive-ways-of-eating-Anyone-getting-any-answers?reverse=1

One thing I've really come up against is what is driving me to overeat, why do I feel the need to do it. I am still exploring that one. I am doing a new course called New ID which I am finding very helpful

www.newid.info/

I am loving the course. I know it may not be right for everyone but for some it is.

Whatever you do on your new eating plan (and I really do wish you all the best) I would really recommend thinking about what is going on in your mind around food, as I think (IMHO) the mind is the key to eating and weight more than metabolism/appetite etc.

brooke73 I'm only a few chapters in the book, but I get the sense that weighing yourself is a self-defeating and destructive exercise. I know from experience that I can be 'good' for days then weigh-in and the lack of positive results (perhaps from water retention or factors I am not aware of) can set me back for quite some considerable time, triggering depression, anger, despair etc.
I feel the book emphasises the importance of focusing on other indicators that are positive result of controlling our compulsive eating habits, such as increased health, greater energy, freedom from headaches etc triggered by unhealthy foods. As night follows day, weight loss will result from making healthier choices and your body will regulate itself to a healthy weight but not necessarily at the pace we want it to.
After all, weight loss can be a result of so many negative factors, illness, stress, an imbalance in our system. I know I, for one, have dragged myself to weighing in at Slimming World after a bad cold or worse, when I had felt to ill too eat. But then I was delighted when the scales registered a significant loss. How sick is that thinking? Have you ever seen a cancer patient rejoice because their hair fell out? I was celebrating a direct result of my being ill. Nuts!
I'm still personally struggling with this issue, but the book exhorts you to keep reading and the message will slowly seep through.
I know that this principle works. I come from a long line of alcoholics and feel strongly that this addictive nature of mine comes from there, although that does not give me an excuse not to try and beat it.
My relationship with my alcoholic father deteriorated so badly and took my self-esteem with it to such an extent I sought help from a counsellor, who, very wisely suggested I try Al-Anon.
I was sceptical, went along, met people who understood me and listened. I don't really know how things changed but they did, and I was urged to "just keep coming" and slowly the message of self-acceptance and acceptance of others seeped through to me. Nobody counselled me, nor advised me, nobody gave me a magic formula to apply. They simply aided me to find the tools to help myself. Now in respect to my attitude to my father I can wholly say all resentment and bitterness has left me. Sadly he died only a year into my 'recovery' but without the support and understanding I had gleaned from my support groups I would have still held anger and pain which would have eaten away inside of me. I learned, somehow and completely unconsciously, to let go of something that was bad for my health (both physically and emotionally). You could possibly argue that I may have undergone some kind of 'brainwashing'. Maybe, but, hell, my brain sure was dirty and needed a damn good clean!
Surely our ingrained attitudes to food and overeating are equally unhealthy and we need to let go of them in the same way. Only when we let go do we have the capacity to embrace a new concept. You can't hug a child with an arm full of shopping!
This isn't necessarily an endorsement of any 12-step group, it doesn't work for everyone, but I feel some principles in the book are very similar. It's just common sense when you look at it.
I'm still on the learning curve and feeling varying degrees of resisitance but I know if I stick with it then I am giving myself the best possible to chance to beat it.
I hope that makes sense.

maybe this makes it clearer, persisting reading a book which repeats again and again, in subtle ways in the same message, is much like repeating affirmations or a mantra to yourself.
This piece about affirmations says it more succinctly than I could:
Power of Affirmations

oh dear, did I kill the thread?

No, it's usually me who kills threads

Hi Can I join?

I do three low carb meals a day life inbetween!!

But constantly struggle!!

B Poached egg and beans

L Roast chicken and veg

T soup, Turkey salad, fruit and muller light (I think I am addicted to them!!) They are amazing!!

Now 15.12 and hungry, want a crunchie but I want to loose weight too!!

Hi everyone

I didn't post last night as I had a small binge which resulted in the usual depression and lethargy. I started to post about it but couldn't summon the energy I really should have posted as part of my problem is my inability to ask for help when I need it.

Why I had the binge is irrelevant really. I had something difficult happen, I talked to someone about it (dh) and I thought I had dealt with it but the sudden desire to eat afterwards was very strong. I have noticed that while I am eating, I have a voice in the back of my head saying "you can choose to stop if you want to" but I seem to almost disassociate myself from it. It is almost like I am watching myself eat. The person eating is someone else (sort of)). This time "I came back to myself " very quickly though as sometimes this goes on in bursts all evening.

Anyway the good thing was that usually I would have woken up today and felt terrible and gone on to eat masses for breakfast etc. Well I did feel pretty bad and disappointed in myself but for a change I completely understood that this was a consequence of my choice last nignt and that I could make the same choice today or make a different one. That was completely up to me. It is a genuine free choice no-one is forcing me to eat less/more healthily so why be so resentful. So far I have made the right choices today again.

How is everyone else doing?

Hi Fairy
Of course you are welcome.

I was wondering if we should set a particular date/time when everyone who wants to do this checks in. We could of course post any other time as well but I find it useful to make a commitment to post regularly. Also it would be good to know that one of us has a question or is having a hard time that a post on a particular day/time would be likely to find someone else from this thread around.

Does anyone think this a good idea, and if so when would be a good time to post

Hi!

Has anyone tried overeaters anonymous meetings?

I am just going to bed and am on day 14 of no binging!! Find weekends so hard so glad made it in one piece!!

Fairy xxx

Ah bumblingbovine-the voice in the back of your head! Thats what has been giving me grief. I know that I am eating addictively but the voice in my head is stronger and blocks out everything but the gratification I will get from eating that thing in front of me. Thats what I really need to work on, bringing that bloody voice to heel!

bumblingbovine well done on coming to in the middle of binge and knowing you have a choice.

Tonight at my New Id meeting we heard this story, from THERE?S A HOLE IN MY SIDEWALK

(Autobiography in Five Short Chapters - By Portia Nelson)

Chapter One

I walk down the street.

There is a deep hole in the sidewalk.

I fall in.

I am lost?I am helpless.

It isn?t my fault.

It takes forever to find a way out.

Chapter Two

I walk down the street.

There is a deep hole in the sidewalk.

I pretend that I don?t see it.

I fall in again.

I can?t believe I am in this same place.

But, it isn?t my fault.

It takes a long time to get out.

Chapter Three

I walk down the same street.

There is a deep hole in the sidewalk.

I see it is there.

I still fall in?it?s a habit?but,

my eyes are open.

I know where I am.

It is my fault.

I get out immediately.

Chapter Four

I walk down the same street.

There is a deep hole in the sidewalk.

I walk around it.

Chapter Five

I walk down another street.

All the very best to all of us who are finding ways out of our compulsive eating patterns.

*Italiangreyhound

I love that "autobigraphy" and find it coming to mind in my darkest hours.

We can't expect changes to happen overnight. We didn't wake up one morning to discover we'd gained a few extra stone and become overeaters. So it is insanity to think we can 'undo' the ingrained traits any quicker than we developed them?

It is going to be a hard slog, but it must be worth it, we are worth it.

This is what I tell myself every day, sometimes I believe it, other times less so. But if I keep saying it, maybe one day it'll sink in and a lifetime of change will begin.

Thank you for being company on my journey .

I am awaiting Gillian's book from Amazon!

I don't know if I will be able to avoid the scales, though. I weigh once or twice a week right now (no more) but I know beforehand what they're going to tell me depending on whether I've been disciplined or not.

So far my 21 day tomorrow diet has been going well (10lbs in 2 weeks, last weigh in). Almost too well as I have been exercising extreme will-power and I know this degree of w/p is not sustainable for me.

I am trying to 'eat mindfully', chewing lots (and NOT be the first to finish, as usual!). I am also 'allowing' myself 'bad' food (lazy shorthand, there, as I don't consider any food to be 'bad', just maybe something I need to eat a lot less of!) BUT when faced with 'bad' food, I try and say to myself that it's my choice whether I eat it, but I am aware of the psychological and physical repercussions if I do. So I ate 1/3 slice of Daim cake in Ikea yesterday! But not a full slice.

I am also trying not to 'secretly' follow a diet (ie low calorie, low carb, point counting etc) as experience has taught me that unless you intend doing so for ever, the minute you start eating 'normally', as you haven't actually re-educated your mind, you will regain weight.

Of course, some people can keep up a diet for ever but that ain't in MY willpower!

I also have a 'fat' photo of me on top of the fridge to glance at when needed....

oh, please, please, please don't put a 'fat photo' up.
How can that do anything but lower your current view of yourself? Can you honestly look at it and not feel saddened. I know couldn't.
You need to develop self esteem first and foremost. If you're going to stick anything on your fridge, make it a list of the things you are proud of, then ask yourself if succumbing to the temptations in the fridge will add to or detract from your sense of self-worth. If the answer is in the negative then you have given yourself 'thinking space' and an opportunity to make healthy choices.

Fairyloo
I have been to OA in the past and in many ways I did feel as if "I had come home" there. I completely understood the other people there and felt accepted. I did however struggle with the surrender to a higher power concept. Not because I don't believe that it works or in a higher power (which I think I do) but I just couldn't seem to translate the isead of surrender to one where I ate less.

I feeling good about my food again today and I really am beginning to understand GR's argument that the process of denial of a desire can increase your self-esteem as and of itself. This has led me to be less afraid of my desire to eat.

Before my thinking would go something like.
"I mustn't eat that, how can I distract myself?, I can't stop thinking about (inset whatever food you like), I can't stop thinking about (..), I mustn't eat it, I will just get fatter, Oh I am so fat already who cares!"

Now I am practising more of this:
"I can eat whatever I like, I can eat that if I want to, I can eat whatever I want to ........I will however feel (bloated, unhealthy, dissapointed in myself) if I do"

Then if I make the chocie not to eat, it increases my self esteem as I have made what I would see as a good chioce. The choice also seems less difficult and less filled with resentment. I am therefore coming to see the "desire to eat" as less something to be afraid of and more an opportunity to practice my self-esteem building skills.

I am quite surprised it is working actually but it seems to be ("mostly anyway").

Another thing about this is that I seem more able to look in the mirror and see how fat I am without making as many judgements about it. Although I am just as fat (I have only been doing this for a week or so) I feel better about how I look and I am less "worried" about how I look to other people.

I am beginning to trust that how I look will take care of itself in it's own time. How I feel about myself today is based on how I have behaved today and on the choices I have made today and not on how I look.

[stands up and applauds bumblingbovine]

with regards to the 'Higher Power' I was always led to believe that it could be anything you wish it to be: God, the Universe, the collective consciousness of the group, nature, whatever lifts your mind beyond the material plane into a spiritual (not religious) way of thinking.

I'm at the same stage, and looking at myself in the mirror slightly differently.
My challenge will come if the weight begins to come off and people start to notice and comment. Will I find myself seduced by their 'approval' and shift my motives to seek that approval out and not to do it solely for myself? Then I risk falling into the same old traps and feeling the 'pressure' to continue losing weight. And we all know what happens to objects when you apply pressure, eventually they break.
Time will only tell and these are the 'muscles' I have to develop.

Ivanighspare

I'm pleased you are seeing yourself differently too.

Yes that is a risk. Also I am so "rebelious" that positive comments about my weight make me annoyed as well as pleased. How messed up is that?

Anyway I am just having a quick post at work and have to leave for home now.

I will try and check in later

Re the photo on top of the fridge- it's there, along with a list copied off here- more of that in a mo!) so that should I find myself wandering to the kitchen I can glance at it and go 'Yeah, OK, I recall why exactly I'm on a diet'! cos, the reality is, I don't really see myself as particularly fat! But I am, tipping the scales at a BMI of 30! In some ways, my self-esteem isn't the issue (which is why, on another thread, I've made the point I don't advertise my diet publicly as I don't need 'group disapproval' to stay on the straight and narrow- I need my own remembering why I need to diet and a visual like a photo is fine for me!)

The list is the hints and tips someone posted on here which are useful memory aides, too!

I love this analogy, it comes from a description of 12-step programmes, but I think it can be applied to the book and the support that could be gleaned from this thread:
I have added in bold where I think this can be applied to us, too.

"Picture ourselves standing on the shore.
Way across the water is an island called, "Serenity," where peace, happiness, and freedom exist from the despair of alcoholism and other problems (such as compulsive overeating). We really want to get to that island, but we've got to find a way to get across the water - that huge void that stands between us and where we want to be.
We have two choices.
In the water is an ocean liner, a cruise ship that looks posh and cozy. It's called, "Treatment," "Therapy." (or dieting, quick-fix solutions)
Next to it, on the beach, sits a group of odd-looking people. They appear to be rowing a boat, but we can't see the oars. We only see these people sitting on the beach, rowing an invisible boat with invisible oars.

The ocean liner honks, summoning us aboard the treatment and therapy cruise. We see the people on board: they're happy and waving to us. Then there's these goofy people hollering at us to join them in their invisible boat. Would we choose the liner or the invisible boat? Of course, we'll get on the ocean liner, the luxury cruise. The next thing we know, we're heading toward that island of happiness.
The problem is about mid-way across the water, the ocean liner stops, turns around, and heads back to the shore where we started from. Then the captain orders everyone off the ship. When we ask, "Why?" he says, "Our cruise only goes so far. The only way you can ever get to that island is by getting in the invisible boat "
So we shrug our shoulders and walk over to the people in the boat.
"Get in!" they holler.
"We can't see any boat to get into!" we holler back.
"Get in anyway," they say.
So we get in, and pretty soon they say, "Pick up an oar and start rowing ." (reading the book)
"Can't see any oars," we holler back.
"Pick 'em up and start rowing, anyway!" they say.
So we pick up invisible oars and start rowing, and pretty soon we see the boat. Before we know it, we see the oars too. Next thing we know, we're so happy rowing the boat with the goofy people we don't care if we ever get to the other side."

bumblingbovine wow that is fab; I am so pleased you are able to look positively at yourself ? especially because caring and loving yourself is so important (IMHO).I have the opposite ?problem? in the sense that I do not see the fat, I am overweight - actually by my BMI I am obese (I was almost 34 and am now down to just over 32 ? I need to lose 12 pounds and I will be into the overweight instead of obese category!) BUT I know that healthy eating and normal eating is my goal now and not being slim, still in my head I am slim!

bumblingbovine I do hope you don?t mind me chipping in to this thread. I am not doing the same ?programme? or ?system? as you but I can certainly associate with the idea of making a choice and feeling good as you make it.

IvaNighSpare thank you for your kind words.