Anyone want to join a thread about Eating Less.

[bumblingbovine]

I read this book by Gillian Riley a while ago and it made so much sense. She has a website here
www.eatingless.com

I may even go to a seminar but I think the book has most of whast you need in it. There is a chapter free on the website to get an idea of the tone


She talks about stopping overeating and says that focussing on weight is completely counterproductive. I really would like to try this but thought it would be useful to have some support.

I have been thinking about this for a while but issues with my ds have got in the way. The other thread on fat/overeating has reminded me

I will need to dig the book out agin but the key thing she talks about is setting some realistic limits on the what, the amount and when you will eat and then sticking to them.

The idea is to "stop overeating" not to "lose weight". In fact you can stop overeating much more easily than you can lose weight and it happens quicker.

So my food plan would be to

Eat 3 balanced meals a day (one portion only - no seconds)every day. This would be
Breakfast between 7am and 9am
Lunch between 12pm and 2pm
Dinner between 6pm and 8pm

To have a maximum of 1 snack a day which should be of a reasonable size and reasonably healthy

Dessert if eaten should be fruit or yoghurt during the week but can be something less healthy at the weekend for dessert if I want it

Success would be sticking to the food plan each day. Weight would not come into it.
everybody's foodplan would be different to suit them

We could check in every few days (or daily) with how we have done or if we are having trouble with cravings and wanting to eat more.

Does anyone want to try this?

[SteelTownGirl]

Meant to say there is a 5 minute sample of the CD you can listen to on the Eating Less website - see link in the original post

[erebus]

Hi Steeltown- sounds like you really are getting the hang of GR!

I think it's helpful that she says the eating issues can be a result of emotional problems in the past OR not! They are what they are, iykwim, and her approach seems to be 'and these are some things that you need to consider before you eat'- the 'here and now' is what we need to look at.

I think the being kind to yourself approach is helpful. I have never understood, for example, how buying 'too small clothes could possibly be useful. All it's saying to you is 'You're fat and can't fit into these!'. Talk about morale back-fire likelihood!

I know a problem I needed to overcome was almost reverse GR- My mother, amusingly in retrospect, used to say 2 things to me :'What DO you look like? and 'No-one's looking at YOU!'- not said particularly forcefully, just the typical what you say to teenagers got-up to go out and what you say when someone appears to be taking their outward appearance too seriously. Well, I found that, past 40 and with DCs, I was beginning to think 'What does it matter what I look like? I'm a middle aged woman and no one looks at THEM'- thus happily grazing my way through the day, completely disregarding the self-esteem boost you get when you feel good, feel healthy, have energy and, sod it Gillian, but look good too!

Let me know a bit more about the CD when you have time! Thanks!

[Italiangreyhound]

SteelTownGirl* thanks for telling me about the link of the CD on the original website. I used to have a Zita west CD and I fell asleep to that too (assisted conception one).

I am so glad the thread is supportive.

For me I know that I am driven to eat, no jokes about drive-thrus here! I can eat normally, sensibly for a short while and then I get this need for a sugar rush. Sometimes (like last week) it is habit, and I don't really enjoy it. Today, I ate a piece of really nice cake, which should have been it for me for a treat today, but later I went a bit barmy and had a chocolate bar and highly calorific chocolate macaroon. I would guess for these three things their combined calories would be half my daily 'normal' allowance! Now I know that it can't be good to get half your daily calories from sugar! I can only say it was a compulsion to eat and basically because I put myself in places where the food was (at work, a shop, my own fridge) I lost control! My long term goal is to be around this food and not give in to compulsions to eat BUT I am not there yet. I really need to work on this a bit more. I do think God can heal me but maybe I need to work through some of the issues first. I'm a compulsive type of person, if I give up the food maybe I will take up something else! So for me I do need to work out why I overeat!

I watched embarrassing fat bodies again today because I missed a bit and the bit I had missed was where they explained that the poor man with the massive tummy had got that way due to steroids for asthma! So I felt so bad, I thought he had just overeaten but he had got ill from medication that saved his life! So sad, but now he has had an op to remove his massive tummy. Why did it take so long when he was in such need!

[Italiangreyhound]

erebus I think it is very important what one looks like. Not at all to judge only by the outward appearance but because how we choose to treat our outward appearance shows how we feel about ourselves (to some extent!). I married in my 30s and did a lot of blind dating in my early thirties looking for Mr Right! I had a chance to muse about this subject and my conclusion was that really, although outward appearance was not the most important thing, a negative outward appearance could stop one from getting to know the real person. So if a guy showed up in stinking clothes or looked like he fell out the back of the wardrobe etc (dressed in the dark) or whatever, I might not pay him enough attention and would miss what he was really like. Also if he was all rumpled and crumpled it might be a sign he had little self respect or that he had little interest in me!

Anyway, it worked the other way in that when I went on single events and met other ladies (I mean they were there as well to meet guys - I was not there to meet them) I noticed that how they dressed (old fashioned etc or modern trendy style clothes) made a big difference too! A woman could be 34 and look 43 or vice versa because of the style of clothes. When single this matters more because you are trying to attract a mate!

Now I have my mate if I looked a mess all the time it might convince him I had stopped caring about myself - or him! Curiously for me I don?t think the food/weight thing is at all about looks and I rarely equate what I eat with what I look like! I know this does not make sense! In my head I am as slim as I was when I was in my twenties! One of the theories about eating disorders is that you kind of stop at the point where one develops. I think my problems with food go back 20 years and I do think in my head I am much younger than I really am! I used to think that everyone thought that but your comment about being a middle aged woman made me wonder! . I mean I am almost certainly middle aged (at 46 - unless I live to be a 100 in which case I have got 4 years to go!).

Anyway, just curious, I guess I would say it does matter what you look like how you dress and that is a reflection of how much you care about yourself. And loving yourself is good! I am sure you do think this too but your mum's comments when you were younger maybe made you wonder about this. I guess as a mum now myself I feel it is hard to get the balance right! Some kids love attention and praise and some kids find it hard. I tell DD all the time how beautiful she is but I know she sometimes does not want to hear it!

This is what it is so weird with me because I do love myself and I do have a lot of confidence now and self esteem etc now but as a teenager I had little self confidence and hated my appearance although I was (even if I say it myself) quite gorgeous as a teenager. Well, pretty! But very shy and not trendy! Anyway, this is good very and therapeutic for me! Maybe no help for you so sorry!

Also erebus I used to buy clothes that were too small and try and fit into them. It did not work! Now I have about a quarter of my wardrobe of clothes that I can't fit into! It is waste of money and no real incentive at all.

All the best to you, and everyone else who is looking in.

[Italiangreyhound]

erebus just to clarify, I'm not disagreeing with you about anything, just musing! It's late, must get off to bed! Night all.

[SteelTownGirl]

Hi all, do you know I think I really am getting the hang of some of GR's ideas! I've felt a bit more positive about myself over the past 24 hours.

As regards the CD, what I'm doing is listening to sections and typing up brief notes as I listen.

I've done 5/10 sections today and hope to do the last 5 tomorrow. If you like, then, I could post a summary of the CD as I understand it.

Sorry for the delay in doing this, it's just that real life gets in the way and I have been away from home today.

It's lovely to read all your interesting points and ideas, I find it so supportive. I wish too that it didn't have to be such a perennial struggle for us all.

I agree with a lot of what's been posted about appearance and weight and this is an aspect of GR's theories where I struggle as my appearance is important to me - more so I'm sure than the actual readings on my scales which I know can vary greatly day to day.

Since I've hit 50 I'm even more aware of appearances and am aware of being "invisible" in certain situations, to younger people and sadly to the opposite sex. That's hard to come to terms with.

Oh well, tomorrow's another day and I'm tired now. Will do my best to report back on the CD, and sending love and good wishes to you all xx

[erebus]

STG (and IGH)- Thanks re the CD- looking forward to hearing about it.

I know exactly what you mean about becoming invisible at 50- I have a mere 18 months to go! I too have decided to 'adapt' GR to a certain extent: I, like you, do feel that my appearance to others is important (though I tried to kid myself it wasn't!). It's perhaps not the most important thing, but of course, for many if not the vast majority of us, our self-esteem is tied up with how we're 'reacted to' by others.

Also, if one has a lot of excess weight on board, our society will villify and humiliate you, so losing that weight and appearing more 'normal' would bosst your self-esteem, wouldn't it?!

Glad you are feeling a bit more upbeat and hope today went well! I confess to a good day: DS2 aquitted himself well in the school concert, I managed to lay a line of cobbles between the showers (yes, I know, my life is all glamour!) and I have reacher Weight Target One (1 stone lost in 5 1/2 weeks); so now I have to not weigh more than weekly. Friday is my new day. I am hoping that, if I can keep this up (and I am convincing myself there's no reason why I can't...) I will be able to go to a 2 weekly weigh-in, trusting my body to show me I'm regaining control of it.

To date, as I may have already said earlier either on this thread or one of the others we meet on, I have to say that I am not good at recognising weightloss in myself. I took ages to realise that my tummy isn't overhanging as much as it was, my underwear doesn't roll down my bump in quite the way it did, and I'm most definitely on a hole less in belt size!

[Italiangreyhound]

Well done steeltowngirl and erebus sounds like you are doing well.

[SteelTownGirl]

erebus, great to hear from you and well done on your achievements! I guess it's not very GR to praise people for their weight loss but I am going to do so any way. And thanks for your response/comments on becoming invisible around 50!
My day went well but then DH got home after a frantic week and we both said to hell with it, let's open some wine.
I'm pressing on with the GR CD and wll try to post some summary info over the weekend.
I'm so impressed by the cobbles!
My DS2 and I have had some fun today - just applied online to be in the audience of Question Time later this month, when it's in our nearest town!
They say being on TV puts at least a stone on you - aaargh!

[Italiangreyhound]

Hi all

I know that avoiding food is not the whole answer but some of this is helpful. This is good - "Awareness is the answer. The more aware you are of the habits the more creative you can get with changing them." www.netnutritionist.com/qa15.htm

This looks interesting www.drphil.com/articles/article/472 I have not read it all but it looks quite good. Very positive.

Take a look at this www.drphil.com/articles/article/429 if interested.

And something about impulse eating goworkoutmom.com/2007/10/thwart-impulsive-eating/

and something helpful to me

weekly.com/diet/planned-snacking-as-the-antidote-to-impulse-eating/

Just a few things to add into the mix.

[erebus]

TV audience, STG? Quick, buy in the Spanx! Make sure you're always turned sideways to the camera! Wear vertical stripes! . Managed to lay 13 pavers between yesterday's showers, too! We are 'retopping' an ugly concrete slab in the back garden to be more patio-ish. Now I will have to wait at least a week to carry on as I can't lift a trug of hardcore alone.

Thanks for the links, Igh. I will have a look at them. It's useful to have as many sources of 'input' as possible, then, within reason, you can pick'n'mix the bits that resonate, can't you? But now I have to get on with labelling all of DS2's kit for a week's residential from school tomorrow. How DO you label socks?!

Anyway, I may run twice around the island on Wii fit later, that will be my nod towards 'being mindful' today!

[Italiangreyhound]

STG look fab and glam, go for bold colours, a big handbag so you will look tiny in comparison, Google the ages of people like Sigourney Weaver and Rene Rousso to remind you that people over 50 are fabulous!
www.imdb.com/name/nm0000623/
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sigourney_Weaver

And throw in Helen Mirren for good measure! www.imdb.com/name/nm0000545/

Some guidance here, skim down to find your body shape, the women look fab, biger or smaller they all look wonderful!

www.glamcheck.com/archive/fashion-tips/clothing-guide/82-dresses-for-women-guide?showall=1

Just interested but which dresses catch your eye most! tell me! I am nosy!

[erebus]

"Wrap dress for hour glass body", the burgundy one. Very nice.

[SteelTownGirl]

Hi all and thanks for the fashion advice! I'll let you know if we get selected.
I've listened to the CD and made a few notes which might be helpful.
I haven't read the book from cover to cover but am going to get back into it because GR says the two work together...well, she would wouldn't she?

Anyhow, some of the main points from the CD are :

To describe the challenge in terms of eating too much, eating the wrong things, having too large an appetite, too much of an interest in foods, particularly the wrong foods RATHER THAN as carrying excess weight - so, redefining the problem.

Avoidance and distraction don't work in the long term - you need to face the problem and work through it.

She names the problem/challenge as managing one's addictive desire to eat and suggests 4 steps

1. Identify and name the add. des. to eat at the time of feeling it - become aware of it, don't deny it, feel it. Use the "times and plans" suggested in her book.
   

1. Remind yourself you've always got the option to overeat - you decide how to respond to the add. des. You choose the consequences. Develop and keep a sense of choice in the matter. An "I mustn't" attitude will lead to rebellion. Owning your choices will give you a sense of freedom.
   

1. Feel the add. des. instead of satisfying it - experience the add. des.
   

Forgive yourself for having it and don't berate yourself. Add. des. can stem from innocent thoughts about food. She acknowledges we live in a society where foods considered not good for us are widely available and cleverly marketed. Add. des. feelings can't be avoided but can be managed.

1. Work out for yourself what the advantages are to you (the trade-off) of accepting your add.des. rather than satisfying it e.g. better health, more energy, higher self-esteem so that the desire is preferable to overeating itself. Such unsatisfied desire forms part of the healing process. Stop and consider your options. Write down your own private list of the benefits of not satisfying your add. des. but omit weight loss and appearance from the list. Work towards developing genuine self-esteem NOT based on your looks.
   

Go through these 4 steps whenever you think about food including when you are shopping for food - again, own your own choices.

She says it's one thing to read the book and listen to the CD but the 4 steps have to be integrated into your life.

Expect resistance; success will not be immediate; you will make mistakes.

Keep reminding yourself of your choices - you will feel tempted but not deprived.

You will change your relationship with food and think about it in a different way.

You will end up eating less of the "addictive" foods - less sugar, salt, fat and wheat; your taste buds will adapt over time.

She cautions against an all-or-nothing perfectionist approach, which can set you up for failure - so don't apply the principles too rigidly.

Satisfy your add. des. from time to time with "tasty rubbish" - get a balance.

Learn to manage your feelings of desire for food and steer a path between extremes at a doable pace.

That's the gist of it. I'm going to finish the book and keep listening to the CD because it does, in theory, seem to make sense.

Hope this summary is helpful.

[SteelTownGirl]

And yes, burgundy wrap dress appeals to me too.
That sort of dress can be quite forgiving, don't you find?
I am neither petite not plus size though.
I like to be size 14 top, size 12 bottom. I am 5'9" tall.
Just at present my clothes are generally just that little bit too snug.
I know giving this information probably contravenes GR's rules....

[erebus]

The GR police will be watching!
Thanks very much for that summary. Must've taken ages to type but much appreciated. Lots of nails hit on heads!

I thought the dress thing was a bit deceptive in using the word 'petite' when I think it should have said 'slim'! To me, petite means under 5'2" with a 'small frame'. But I like the way that dress has its only 'detail' over the bits that smooth fabric wouldn't forgive!

For the non-GR record, it was straying into SIZE 18 territory that made me realise it was time to sling the anchors on my weight gain. I had to pack to go away to Australia over Easter and I found that last year's summer crop trousers were largely too snug for comfort! I have always favoured looser clothes (Trinny and Suzannah would hate me!) so perhaps some of my tops could be 16 but my Per Una jeans (with a tiny bit of lycra) were definitely 18s. I'm 5'6".

[IvaNighSpare]

Good Morning all,
Hope you all had lovely, controlled weekends
I wish i could say the same but I fairly toppled off the wagon this weekend.
We had our annual Summer Ball on Friday and the food was sooooo nice, and they had a Hagen Daazs room , and there was wine, oh so much wine....
And then the next day came the hangover and the need to eat stodge, lots of it....
And then came Sunday and a visit to friends where they had made a fab meal, and it seemed rude not to.....

Anyway, today I start my week with a fresh attitude again. I shall make best efforts not to berate myself for 'misdemeanours', focus on the fact that I had a fab time at the Ball and my friends' and try to learn from this.

I went to bed listening to the GR CD which I had uploaded onto my i-pod (I keep the original in my car to listen to there, too) and hopefully some sank in as I drifted off to sleep.
What struck me is the addictive desire as a memory or habit. Maybe at the Ball I remembered that the food, and the ice-cream would be there (as it has been for the last few previous years) and the memory triggered my AD and off I went!
Same goes for the Hangover Food. Hangover=Stodge .
Anyway, hopefully I can continue the learning curve this week.

Sorry about the 'Me' post....

[SteelTownGirl]

Hi ladies, wishing you all a successful week!

Erebus no problem typing it all out, I think, like revising for an exam, it helped a lot of it to sink in. Trying to look at GR a bit more objectively, I do think sometimes she labours the point and goes round the houses a bit; it gets repetitive, but I feel there is sense in her approach.

I know particularly as I've got older I seem more acutely aware of my appearance and weight, relative to how I was in my 20s, 30s, 40s etc. My head tells me I can't recapture those days but my heart sort of wants to.

Again I know it's "against" the GR approach but old habits die hard and I find it almost impossible not to define myself in terms of what I currently weigh, or what I consider my dress size today.

I've just come back from town and as we are going on holiday in August, I had a quick wander round the summer clothes. I was aware of being in the mindset "now if I can just lose a few pounds I will reward myself in due course with some purchases...."

So the GR stuff about improving self-esteem resonates with me. And regrettably I find I do care what friends and family think of me. And I recognise the perfectionist traits too.

PS I already own some Spanx! Two pairs in fact.

IVA - please don't apologise about the me, me thing! I for one love it when people share their experiences, I find it really supportive and helpful.

The key for me, in your post, was that you had a fab time at the ball with your friends, and really that is so important. Those events/good times are worth their weight in gold. You can get back on the wagon during the week, can't you?

Can you rethink it that you made the choice to go with your "AD" at the weekend, and now, in the week, you can when need be take a step back and address the "AD" properly as and when it arises?

Sounds like you are learning from the CD, as am I. I have to drive later today and will put the CD on again then.

Italian thank you for all the useful links, as erebus says we need all the resources we can get! I will keep on the lookout for some more.

Hope you all have a good week xx

[Italiangreyhound]

Hi ladies, I had a good time at the New Id course www.newid.info/ last week, it was interesting. One thing we learned about was nutrition. It was all about eating well and one thing they said was that if it was not around a thousand years ago then not to eat it! I think that was a bit extreme, it was just a bit of advice but if you think about it, all the natural healthy foods have been around for generations and proceesed food and fast food has been around for a few decades! So some truth in it. But the main thing was the importance of good fats and of having fats, protein and carbs at all meals. The brain has a lot of fat in it and so hvaing a low fat diet all the time is not good. The body needs good fats, the kind in nuts and seeds etc. It is important to have fats, protein and carbs (which includes fruit and veg) at all meals. I am now on a new mission to eat well, to eat healthily and to nurish my body!

I've had a quick look on the Internet and seen a couple of useful things.

I can't recommend this book but it does look good www.bmedreport.com/archives/19443

It talks about the importance of fat and oils, "... as the human brain is nearly 60% fat. Although the daily news on your television tells you that all fat is ?bad,? it is not true! Actually, it is true that the brain can get into big problems when we put the wrong fats and oils into our mouth.

"Dr. Schmidt lists at least 50 disorders that are associated with poor fat and oil nutrition, such as bipolar disorder, age related memory loss, Alzheimer?s disease, attention deficit/hyperactivity disorder (ADHD), autism, and multiple sclerosis."

Also see - helpguide.org/life/healthy_diet_fats.htm for some really helpful advice on fats.

[Italiangreyhound]

Thanks STG for the good advice, will try and look into all this, have asked library to reserve GR book for me. Now I feel that my eating disorder is more under control, I can notice when I am eating on autopilot, notice when i am impulse eating and notice when I am using food for the wrong reasons - whether I then stop or not is partly dependent on me and partly on the circumstances - so no, I don't get it right all the time but luckily i am not a perfectionist so that means that I can get it right sometimes and wrong sometimes and my aim is to increase the times I get it right and decrease the times I get it wrong!

erebus must ask you where that name comes from! No worries whatever started yo on this track! it least you are on it.

Iva You had a fun time, just enjoy the memory but get back on the horse. I once said I had not only fallen off the wagon but was now being dragged under the wagon! BUT you can get back on it, think of it in the most positive way possible. How quickly can you start to nourish your body! I am assuming as this is mumsnet you are a mum. Imagine your child being back as that tiny baby, what did you want to do, nourish the baby, care for it and look after it. Well, your body is special and precious so nourish it. Yes, you had fun, and food, and you will have more fun and more food in the future and probably more ice cream too but for now think what will get me fitter, healthier, hair and skin glowing. If you can genunley answer ice cream then you can go back and eat some more, but I am guessing you will find a better answer!

[erebus]

Yes, I'd be looking at the Ball and great food with friends as being the 20% of the time that we all fall off that wagon! I've read in many places that if you can 'follow the diet' or in our case 'been mindful' at least 80% of the time, the other 20 we can use as a learning experience. As for the 'me' post- well, lets' fact it, doing this is about how we're going to be more kind to our own bodies, isn't it! Often a failure to acknowledge that we as people, count too (ie we're mum, we're middle aged and invisble so it doesn't matter etc) is why our weight crept up! When it comes to taking control, me is king!

My name? Completely random! Had it a while now but am thinking to reverting to my very original name (I'll tell you if I do!). I got into a battle when using my previous name (like can happen here on MN) so I changed it! It's a volcano in Antarctica....

The thing about oils is very important. I think if further emphasises that diets that ban stuff can't be good. My problem with the good oils is that I can't shake of decades of 'education' that says 'Nuts= calories= BAD' . For a mid afternoon snack I will have an apple, for instance, which is fine but I wonder if I should have a few nuts or seeds instead, 'brain food' if you like.

My mindfulness is certainly paying off (I disobeyed myself today and hopped on the scales this morning as it's 6 weeks today since I began...) but I am worrying that it's 'working' because I am being pretty disciplined- will GR's famous 'diet-rebellion' kick in??

I think I mentioned before either on this thread or another we're all on I am concerned that I am still eating the same narrow range of foodstuffs, fearful of the uncharted waters of 'calorie-city' eg why I 'fear' nuts as snacks!

[Italiangreyhound]

erebus would not want to force nuts on you but personally love them. You could try seeds or other stuff too. Apples are great. I think it is a case of variety, because too limited and you might miss out on nutrients. Avocados are good, oily fish, small fish like mackeral and sardines are good.

Could Flax seed be useful, I think we in the UK call it linseed. I tried the seeds but it irritated my irritable bowel. But you can get it as oil or supplements.

www.askdrsears.com/topics/family-nutrition/flax-seeds-and-flax-oil

This info looks correct BUT I am not a dietician so I don't know! But it looks good and answers my margarine vs butter question!

[erebus]

My problem is I love nuts! I have to re-educate myself into having 6 or 7, not great fistfuls!

[erebus]

The youtube clip was enlightening, too!

[SteelTownGirl]

Hi everyone, sorry been a bit quiet - had a blip these last few days - been a bit down in the dumps and not been mindful at all, eaten the "tasty rubbish" I mentioned the other day - and rather too much of it.
Can't really put my finger on what's wrong. I do take anti-depressants and by and large they work but just get these "down-times".
So going to try and get back on track today.
Not very GR but I do have some distractions like a good long walk over lunchtime with a friend and her 3 dogs; then a cuppa later with another mate. I really do need my friends!
I think the GR approach will work for me longer term but onyl if I combine it with other strategies, like keeping busy and not spending so much time at home where the kitcken and its many temptations are so readily available.
Anyway hope you're all doing okay and please do keep in touch with me!