Anyone want to join a thread about Eating Less.

[bumblingbovine]

I read this book by Gillian Riley a while ago and it made so much sense. She has a website here
www.eatingless.com

I may even go to a seminar but I think the book has most of whast you need in it. There is a chapter free on the website to get an idea of the tone


She talks about stopping overeating and says that focussing on weight is completely counterproductive. I really would like to try this but thought it would be useful to have some support.

I have been thinking about this for a while but issues with my ds have got in the way. The other thread on fat/overeating has reminded me

I will need to dig the book out agin but the key thing she talks about is setting some realistic limits on the what, the amount and when you will eat and then sticking to them.

The idea is to "stop overeating" not to "lose weight". In fact you can stop overeating much more easily than you can lose weight and it happens quicker.

So my food plan would be to

Eat 3 balanced meals a day (one portion only - no seconds)every day. This would be
Breakfast between 7am and 9am
Lunch between 12pm and 2pm
Dinner between 6pm and 8pm

To have a maximum of 1 snack a day which should be of a reasonable size and reasonably healthy

Dessert if eaten should be fruit or yoghurt during the week but can be something less healthy at the weekend for dessert if I want it

Success would be sticking to the food plan each day. Weight would not come into it.
everybody's foodplan would be different to suit them

We could check in every few days (or daily) with how we have done or if we are having trouble with cravings and wanting to eat more.

Does anyone want to try this?

[Dozer]

Hi bumbling and others, hope I can join you. I really like the book, although have been struggling to sort myself out! My weight has yo-yo'd since I hit my teens. am a "healthy"-ish weight at the moment, but anything but healthy, lots and lots of bad eating habits, overeating, binges etc. Really recognise a lot of what you've been saying.

Am really worried that unless I can eat more sensibly I could pass on bad habits to my daughters (3 and 9 months). Want them to have a mum with healthy attitude to food/self. At the moment I feed them lovely healthy home-cooking before stuffing myself with junk when they can't see!

So I will pop in here sometimes if that's ok!

[Dozer]

Erebus, don't beat yourself up for "only" losing x pounds! Lol about theatre scrubs being like pjs! When I was having dd2 (unplanned c-section) the surgeon (male, not slim) was chatting to his colleagues about his recent weight loss / attempted exercise regime / bad eating habits, and remember feeling relieved that even clever doctors, nurses etc have issues with food!

[erebus]

Nah, doctors stay thin because of the 40 a day habit they all seem to have!

[SteelTownGirl]

I've just posted on erebus's thread - I'm going to re-read this book over the next few days and hopefully give Gillian Riley's ideas another try. I'm wanting to lose about 10lbs, I eat healthily but I eat too much of everything. I'm tall and a few extra pounds don't show to the outside world - but I know they're there and they are bothering me. I really feel buoyed up reading this thread as it feels like you all understand
I'll come back when I've got my head around the ideas in the book again

[Concordia]

marking my place as i got the book out of the library a while back. haven't got very far but will try to get on with it. i think it is the kind of thing i need but haven't seen the website yet so thanks.

[SteelTownGirl]

Just gone back through the whole of this thread - thank you bumbling for starting it. You ladies all sound fantastic - so understanding and non-judgmental.
One of you posted about what I would call the tyranny of organisations like Slimming World.
I lost nearly 2 stones with SW after having my children. I too got obsessed with it all, absolutely paranoid about my weight loss. I wouldn't eat at all on the weigh-in day, then come home from being weighed and eat everything in sight. I also, if this isn't TMI, became bulimic, so fixated was I about losing weight then maintaining a low weight. In a nutshell it made me crazy!
All that's behind me now, but count me in on this thread as I know Gillian Riley's ideas make sense - just need to refresh my memory by reading the book again.

[Italiangreyhound]

Hi all, back from my weekend and all OK. The food was incredible but as it was the fussy French variety the portions were tiny, which was just what I needed, small amounts of amazing food instead of acres of rubbish.

I too struggle with making decisions and not being influenced by a dieting mentality. But I also think it is about eating healthily for me, I am in my 40s and I want to live a long life so too much booze, sugar, fat etc will not help me live a long time.

All the best to all and hi to Dozer.

[erebus]

Hiya steel- I replied on my other thread, too, but I wanted to re-emphasise on here that I feel that there really can be no other way of permanently losing weight other than completely rethinking WHY we're overweight!!

As Gillian correctly says, the vast majority of diets address the 'how' but not the 'why'; the symptom (excess weight) but not the cause (why we have eaten more than our body needs).

Gillian is harder than SW or WW, Pig to Twig etc because YOU as an individual have to put yourself in the driving seat of your body. There's no lists of what you can eat today, what you must avoid, possibly for ever (ha!); just you, a book and the decision that you must must regain control of yourself.

It's kind of liberating but it's also scary!

[Italiangreyhound]

Hi SteelTownGirl sorry to hear about the bulimia.

Hi Concordia.

I just want to eat healthily and normally. I think eating normally does not mean being free to eat loads of junk. I also think that for some of us (me and maybe others) food signifies more than just mere food. I just think of Monica in 'Friends' (TV series from the 90s), in the one where they meet the psychologist guy (Phoebe's boyfriend)! Monica starts eating cookies and is feeling down and he says 'Go easy on those cookies, OK, remember they're just food, they're not love!"

If you are not a Friend's fan, Monica used to over eat, probably because her parents always favoured her brother and her mum was very negative with her and although she was slim in the series they put her in a fat suit for the flash backs! It is all meant to be very funny but for those of us who do comfort eat (and maybe don't even realise we are doing it!) it is not so funny! It's just a TV show but it makes sense!

I would say I have an eating disorder, impulsive or compulsive eating, and am currently doing a Christian course about it called New Id

www.newid.info/

When Kim Hemsley in the DVD on my New ID course (a few weeks back) read out a definition by Helen Wilkinson (a writer) about compulsive eating, I just started crying! I recognised myself there so much. So I don?t think it is too much information to mention Bulimia etc. We are all different. Not everyone who overeats has an eating disorder but I do think my eating was very disordered and I am working through that.

All the best to all.

[Italiangreyhound]

erebus here here, we cross posted but I think what I wrote also agrees with what you wrote because I would say I want my new healthy normal eating to be for life and never to have to 'go on a diet' again!

[Italiangreyhound]

Oh I should say the definition of a compulsive eater was not a medical one but more about how they felt, it was fascinating.

[SteelTownGirl]

It was Ivanighspare who posted about SW - her experience really resonated with me.
I know I have issues over seeking approval from others
I'm over the bulimia now although I feel it will always be sort of in the background somewhere, as almost a safety valve.
I prefer now to think of myself as having disordered eating patterns rather than an eating disorder.
Whatever I call it, it is a bit of a struggle - and I'm in my early 50s too so it all feels a bit shameful somehow - like I ought to be coping better at my age?
Anyway, enough of me. I am just so impressed with all the great progress you girls are making.
I am off to bed now to get started re-reading GR. I do hope we can keep this thread going and support each other.

[IvaNighSpare]

Hi SteelTownGirl and to all you lovely supportive folks.
Hope things are going well for you all, but if they aren't I hope you can see it as just a blip, and not another stick to beat yourselves with.
Today's challenge for me was doing the food shopping whilst hungry. Doesn't everyone advise not to do that, eh? But GR in her book advises us not to fear hunger and see it as a think we can get through without 'curing' it through eating, and then overeating.
It was a challenge, and seeing all the lovely, tempting items laid before me had me salivating like the Pavlov's Dog that GR cites. However, I got through it, I think. Each time I reached out to grab the comfort foods I had to tell myself "yes, you have free choice to buy these, but you will eat them and feel rubbish and cross with yourself, do you really want to spend your money on something that will ultimately lower your self-esteem and jeopardise your health?"
I did try and counter the inner-dialogue by telling myself I was buying things like cakes and treats for the kids, but I seem to be struggling with kidding myself as much any more. I know if I buy these things the kids won't get a look-in, so who am I really fooling? So, consequently, the food went back on the shelf.
And, more importantly the hunger abated until I could get home and eat the food I'd planned to eat.
Normally a similar scenario would end in me stuffing my face with cake and/or chocolate on the car journey home from the supermarket. I always shop alone, so there are no family members to witness my bingeing.
Something that really bugs me, however, is I am a seasoned and shamefaced vegetable hater. Most of the green stuff makes me retch. I would love nothing more than being the kind of person who could tuck into a salad or a plate of veggies that weren't smothered into nonrecognition by some highly calorific sauce or dressing. I'm not sure how I'm going to get over that hurdle and whether I can 'train' myself into choosing the really healthy stuff.
Does anyone else struggle like this?

[IvaNighSpare]

me again
In conjunction with GR's book, I'm also dipping into Choices: Taking Control of Your Life and Making it Matter by Melody Beattie
It was her book, Co-Dependent No More that led me to Al-Anon (and also had the boat analogy) so I thought I'd give it a try. It seems to embrace the same concept of choice=consequences, just applied to all walks of life, not just overeating. Don't know about you lot but I know I run a risk of allowing my addictive personality manifest itself in other areas of my life, so any reinforcements against that are good for me!

[Italiangreyhound]

SteelTownGirl thank you for sharing so honestly. I am 46 and have struggled with my weight and with food for about 20 years. I only recently realised that I had disordered eating. I too prefer to call it disordered eating rather than an eating disorder as I have not been medically diagnosed but I guess when you read about stuff and it really rings bells it helps to point you in the right direction.

IvaNighSpare I don?t usually like cooked vegetables and I must admit I have found salads much nicer. I try and have them occasionally and eat all kinds of things like raw broccoli, grated raw carrots, sweet corn etc and baby or vine tomatoes, mixed salad leaves, baby spinach leaves, etc. One dressing that is nicer than the heavy ones, I have found, is to make a dressing using either lemon juice or cider vinegar with a little oil and mustard, or balsamic vinegar. I have found salads are so versatile you can put whatever you like in, raw green beans, mushrooms, olives, and even fruit like grapes etc and have some wonderful fish like mackerel with it. I DON?T think it is good to live on all raw food/cold food etc but I do think that salads are a nice thing to eat and as we come into summer they are an easy thing to prepare and eat. They are quicker to make than complicated cooking, kids can help you make them as no hot stoves to worry about and you can even add stuff like cold baked beans, hard boiled eggs, for protein and cooked asparagus etc ? which could be served cold or hot. Yummy! If you are not naturally a salad person, give it a go, the mixture of colours and textures is fab and you can take your time creating it without worry about it going cold (something I hate about cooking is getting it all hot at the same time). Also, you can have nice fresh granary bread on the side, or white sliced or rolls etc, so I certainly think if you are not a real veggie person, salads are a way forward.

I know what you mean about addictive personalities, mine is a bit like that! I can easily swap one problem for another so I must go to bed now as staying up late is one of my other problems!

Off to bed now.

[SteelTownGirl]

Hi everyone
Thanks for the supportive comments. I stayed up far too late last night making a fresh start with the book and a pen and paper to take notes.
I wonder how many of you are like me and know full well this isn't about food but about how we feel about ourselves?
I have been prone to depression for many years and know that has to do with unresolved issues and definitely in my case, anger and dissatisfaction with myself turned inwards.
I'm currently struggling, I think, with getting older - perceived loss of looks, body parts "sliding southwards", becoming invisible to the opposite gender especially younger ones, kids needing me less and less, seeing ageing sings in my DH too.
I seem to have this need still to know I am attractive (my DH thinks I'm wonderful but I have problems accepting his compliments I have such a downer on myself)
Also I recognise from the first few chapters I've read that I seek approval from friends e.g. not wanting to turn down a glass of wine with lunch or a pudding for fear of offending anyone.
I've had a really pleasant day so far, working part-time from home and juggling that with home admin, keeping tabs on my 17 yr old DS who's supposed to be revising for exams, and household chores. I feel settled and happy and that's reflected itself in sensible eating.
It's when the stress kicks in that I go off the rails.
Anyway, I intend to keep on with my "study" of Eating Less, a little each day.
I looked up the NewId course that was mentioned but there's nowhere near me that does it. I wish it was available online.
FWIW another book I've got which I found quite helpful, if a bit Oprah-American-self-helpy is Women, Food and God by Geneen Roth - has anyone else read this?
Hope you're all having a good day.

[SteelTownGirl]

ageing "signs" in DH I meant, sorry

[winedog]

It's good to read everybody being so open and honest. I am really struggling at the moment with my addiction. It seems as soon as I challenge it I start overeating because I (the addictive me) is fighting what I am trying to do. It's like putting my fingers in my ears and going la la la to block out the voice of reason. It's like a battle going on in my head and I am finding it so hard to STOP and think about what I am doing and to really challenge those addictive thoughts. Sometimes I just think 'oh f*ck it' I'll eat what I want because food makes me happy. I know thats not true though and is just my addictive desire speaking. i know the choice is mine and I am so tired of always challenging that choice. Gillian Riley says that my situation (not highly motivated) is actually a good place to start. I know it will do wonders for my self esteem if I do commit to making change but I know it will be hard work and sometimes I think it is all too hard and it is just easier to stay the way I am. Any inspiration gratefully received!

[IvaNighSpare]

winedog I think we're all in a place where honesty and openness are the only options left to us, because, certainly in my case, years of lying to myself (and others) and rationalisation have got me absolutely nowhere. In fact, they've thrown me deeper into the pit of despair.
Problem is, the truth hurts. And I would do almost anything to avoid the painful, truthful facts that what I am doing to myself by overeating is damaging my health and my self esteem. I'd much rather immerse myself in quick-fixes and instant gratification.
But what I fail to see, in my fear of the truth is that it won't be an ever-lasting catalogue of pain, just a short-sharp shock to ultimately do me good.
What do we tell our children when we take them for innoculations that could well save their lives? Yes it will hurt a little bit, but we are doing it for your own good. Maybe we should treat ourselves as kindly as we treat our babies.

[Italiangreyhound]

IvaNighSpare I agree, it is best to be honest with ourselves but sometimes that may turn up painful thoughts and it would be very good to have someone to turn to in those moments. I feel very fortunate as I am on the New ID course where there are people I can speak to (and email) and I am fortunate to have a few good friends around me who know and understand what I am struggling with. I am also lucky in that the reasons behind my overeating are not too traumatic at all. I am aware others may be struggling with bigger issues, so hopefully if that is the case people will be able find help in suitable places. I feel sure that that won?t be a diet class, but it might be a skilled counsellor. Counsellors are available on the NHS but you probably need to convince your GP it would be helpful! I did get free counselling when I had problems with fertility and it was making me very miserable. I was just lucky that my health visitor refereed me to the counsellor at my GP surgery and she was the was first person (the counsellor) who highlighted the possible link between the end of my OCD in my twenties and the start of my overeating!

[Italiangreyhound]

winedog I really hope you will find a way to not give in to the food. I think if you want to eat something try and stop, and think , for a moment, why do you need it, are you really hungry, are you bored, tired, angry, lonely, what do you feel? Do not be afraid of those feelings but maybe you need to talk to someone in real life ? as well as us. Maybe there is a friend who would understand, (or us ? I think we do understand). It is a quest to seek answers that will answer those deeper feelings. It is amazing to me that it is only now - after 20 years of this - that I am really realising it is just not about food, for many of us, but about feelings! As I said above I think a skilled counsellor can help. I have not attended these groups called OWLS but I know people who have and they have them in places like Berkshire ? it is for people (it is free), not just to lose weight but also to work out why people are over eating. OWLS (Oxfordshire Weight-loss Lifestyle Service). www.royalberkshire.nhs.uk/wards__departments/d/diabetes_and_endocrinology/owls.aspx?theme=Patient

I know that people reading this may not be in Berkshire but if you feel this would help you, you could ask your Primary Care Trust if they would be able to provide this type of service.

I don?t mean to disregard Gillian Riley and //www.eatingless.com because I think it is very interesting but I am aware also that there is a lot more out there that can also help. Hope bumblingbovine won?t mind me mentioning it!

[Italiangreyhound]

SteelTownGirl thank you for being so open and for sharing how you feel. I am 46 and spotting those signs of aging in myself. I think if I am trying to compete with the stick thin teenage models who try and sell me clothes, I will never win. So I want to age well, not necessarily gracefully in the sense of giving in to age, but also not fighting it! I would like to continue to like myself and my appearance as I get older. How will I do it, I am not sure!

I think the biggest question is how we value ourselves. I am a feminist so I value myself as woman, and I want to be valued as a woman and not always be compared to other women trying to be the slimmest/youngest etc. I am a Christian and believe I am fearfully and wonderfully made, and that Jesus loves me (that he came and died for me). BUT I know that not everyone reading this will be a feminist or a Christian and maybe won?t share my views. I would not want to alienate anyone! I would like us all to get to where we want to be in terms of a normal relationship with food, and some things will work for some of us and other things for others. But maybe we can all agree we are wonderful, we are incredible, the way our bodies work, the way we move and function!

SteelTownGirl I am sorry there is not a New ID course near you and I hope one day that it will be available on line. I can?t recommend this book as I have not read it but it is mentioned on the course, it is ?Beyond Chaotic Eating by Helen Wilkinson. www.amazon.co.uk/Beyond-Chaotic-Eating-Helena-Wilkinson/dp/1903905117?tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-21

Good luck to you in growing old beautifully, which is I think what we would all like to do.

[SteelTownGirl]

Hi again
Really interested in all you have to say winedog, Iva, Italian - and really appreciate all your kind and supportive comments.
I know it is an ageing thing with me at the moment. I have low self-esteem and am very hard on myself.
I am however mking good progress reading GR's book and have sent off for her CD to give that a try.
Today I had a lunch out, planned sometime ago, with a friend so I simply tried to make choices about what I ate.
On arriving home I made a cup of tea and would normally have reached for a biscuit or two but I checked myself and realised I wasn't hungry for anything, so took my tea outside onto the patio and sat in the sun to drink it.
Thanks for the book recommendations - I will look out for them, I do envy you the NewId course though, it sounds really good.
Winedog - in terms of inspiration, the only way I can tackle this is to do it one day at a time and by trying to be "in the moment" - don't want to sound too new-agey, but just taking a deep breath and asking myself what I really need there and then - food, someone to talk to, a hug, fresh air whatever.
I did mention Geneen Roth - her website might also be useful?
I will let you all know how I get on with the Gillian Riley CD and mean to crack on tonight with the book.

[Italiangreyhound]

Hi all, sorry if the OWLS thing is confusing, I have not actually been involved in it but I know someone who has! Also, I don't live in Berkshire but if anyone is interested and also does not live in Berkshire you could email them and ask if they know any others in the area.

Likewise if you are interested in the NEW ID course and you can't find one near you why not email the churches that are running them and ask if they know of any courses near you.

I know it is a long shot, and I know this is a thread about eating less by Gillian but whatever works for you.

Those websites again are:

New ID //www.newid.info/

OWLS

As for me, well today was a disaster on the food front! I ate about 4 things I not only did not need but also did not want! Yes, really. A bowl of cereal before I went out to brunch because I saw it in the cupboard! A Millionaire's shortbread because I usually eat it in the cafe! A croissant because my daughter had one! A piece of cake because ... oh because I am an idiot! None of this was remotely tasty or enjoyable and at least it has helped me to work out that I don't have the sweet tooth I thought I had. All the food I ate and actually enjoyed today was savory! I have come to the conclusion I am eating these sweet things out of habit!!! So I am not doing well. BUT I am learning!

SteelTownGirl I love it! "On arriving home I made a cup of tea and would normally have reached for a biscuit or two but I checked myself and realised I wasn't hungry for anything, so took my tea outside onto the patio and sat in the sun to drink it." FABULOUS! That is great, you gave yourself a treat (a lovely cuppa and a sit in the sunshine) without any food.

Hi everyone else. Hope you are all doing well.

[winedog]

Thanks everybody for the caring comments especially Ivanighspare. Sometimes you just get in a repetative patten of behaviour and can't seem to pull yourself out. In fact that's exactly how I got to be so overweight i think one of the reasons I was so taken with Gilian's book was that it explained exactly what was going on in my head. What I thought of as a devil inside my head shouting over common sense was in fact my addicitive desire trying to justify and maintain my addiction. The sometimes slightly overwhelming thing is that nothing and nobody except myself can control my eating. It is liberating and scary at the same time. Great thing though as that it doesn't cost a penny I am never going to be ripped off/talked into/get involved in any weight loss schemes again. It's all about ME and the power I have to achieve something that will boost my self esteem in a very genuine way.