How do weight loss injections work alongside a very low calorie diet?

[ChubbyGroundhog]

Hi all - I am woefully ignorant about WLIs so thought this would be the place to ask the questions?

I'm currently on VLCD that says its GLP-1 compatible. But, if I'm already on 500-800 calories a day, with a nutritionally complete diet, what can WLIs help with?

Would I eat even less than what is daily for VLCD?

Do WLIs mean people eat their normally recommended deficit based on TDEE or does it mean people eat similar to VLCD?

I just don't know if WLIs will work for me, alongside VLCD, or should I get a consultation to ask?

Thanks so much and hope everyone is smashing goals whatever the chosen method!

Yes that is true - but only with a moderate deficit eg 500 calories at a day circa 1,400 and adequate protein and lifting.

Impossible on a VLCD when there will be significant muscle breakdown. People are so obsessed with scale weight that they don’t always consider exactly what they are losing.

Yes, I have a personal trainer who also teaches Krav Maga. I have been in the gym for years. I'm not new to fitness or lifting. Muscle mass is not reduced in a dramatic way over a short period of time when there is a lot of fat present. Again, I know what I'm doing on this point, but not for the WLIs but appreciate the concern.

Nonsensical to assume "people" are obsessed with scale weight and don't know what they're doing.

Do you not realise that what you're saying about VLCD also applies to WLI?

I regret that I asked anything regarding any plan on here because many of you seem as clueless as I do it's just that you have some strange and ill-informed allegiance to your chosen method over an alternative.

This is why I'm not discussing VLCD. I can tell that most of you have no clue but what you could have done is admitted that instead of making silly assertions based on nothing!

As I said, I'm uncomfortable now with this thread. What started as a "please help me" has turned into a really silly and petty discussion about fantasy!

yes - any attempt to eat under circa 1,200 calories will result in significant muscle loss whether it’s WLI or otherwise. That is why I stuck to a low MJ dose and never ate less than 1,200 and prioritised protein and lifting.

re: “assumption” is because I have been on wli threads were people eat VLC and do no exercise and don’t use smart scales so can’t see what they are using. So sadly the assumption is based in reality.

ignore at your peril - I won’t be having a problem with sarcopenia - not my problem - just trying to be helpful.

I won't have sarcopenia, either. I'm being professionally advised which is why I never once asked for the opinion from others re: VLCD.

The assumption by some was that I'm doing something DIY, and novel to weight loss etc, but that is in error. I did not foresee this post going the way it did so didn't think to mention anything that wasn't relevant to my question ie previous weight loss experience, fitness regime etc.

WLIs are notorious for muscle wasting, too. But, I didn't come on here asking for the pros and cons of weight loss methods, all of which have their own pros and cons and all of which will illicit different opinions based on personal and professional advice.

I know you are trying to be helpful so I do want to apologise for becoming increasingly exasperated with feeling like I've been put into a position to defend or advocate for my particular method. That was not my intent when making this post and, despite me saying this numerous times, has seemingly been lost in the discussion.

I think you’re being very defensive, but there is no way round the fact that very low cal diets will result in significant muscle loss. And it doesn’t matter what enables that very low cal diet. It will always result in signficant muscle loss.

i also never went low , I never went below about 1400 cals and lost 6 and a half stone. Sure some abuse it, but they always regret it, because no one likes the empty deflated look they get when they hit goal

and yes many are fixated on the number on the scale or dress size, and it is always a mistake, always.

I am probably seemingly defensive because it has been assumed that I'm chasing a scale weight, advocating for an unhealthy weight loss method (despite many saying the same thing about WLI) and my question not being addressed.

I can't speak for what the "many" do or why. I didn't come here for that but, rather, to understand the mechanisms behind how WLIs work and if anyone thought they could be complimented with VLCD as per the claims of the VLCD programme.

Some very useful comments have been made from people, with real experience with WLI, which is what I was after.

How I'm reacting isn't any different to how users of WLIs would be if someone came to a WLI forum and started bashing WLIs.

Mechanics of Mounjaro (GLP-1) is that is increases the amount of insulin you produce in response to high blood sugar, increases your sensitivity to the insulin, reduces the amount of glucose produced by your liver. This stabilises your blood sugar leading to less spikes and also reduces the amount of sugar your body is converting to fat to get it out of your blood. That’s why it is often used for Type 2 diabetics, and it’s really good at doing this, I was taking insulin twice a day and metformin 4 times a day and still had high sugar levels. The diabetes team prescribed MJ and within 6 weeks I was able to stop the insulin completely, 6 weeks after that I was able to stop the metformin and my HbA1C reduced from 11.7 which is twice the highest range of normal, down to 5.2 which is non-diabetic.

MJ also slows your digestion leading you to feel fuller for longer, this is the effect most people are after because it makes it easier to stick to a lower calorie diet if you aren’t starving hungry all the time,

there are also additional benefit that are less well studied and sold - reduced inflammation being one of them, many people have reported improvements in long term conditions like arthritis and plantar fasciitis.

Which would stack up if you hadn’t already said you are chasing a scale weight. Of two stone loss and bmi 21/22 and doing it on as little as 500 cals a day. There is no part of you that van beleive that is not going to cause you signficant muscle and bone density loss. The only reason someone would brutalise and damage their body like this is to get to thay scale weight as fast as possible.

Yeah, I didn't say that, as far as I can recall. So, thanks for your help but you're making this into you being correct, and tit for tat, and I didn't come here for that.

I have a personal trainer, krav maga instructor and GP.

You've made your opinion known, many thanks.

Thank you so much for this!! This is very clear and makes perfect sense.

I really appreciate you taking the time to describe the mechanics and the effects on you, personally.

It sounds similar to a keto type diet or low carb diet ie reduces hunger and insulin resistance and spikes, inflammation etc?

I'm so happy for you and to hear that you reduced your levels and have gone from having a team for diabetes to being non-diabetic. That is truly inspiring. You must feel much better.

Thank you once again x

The short answer therefore is
yes WLI esp at a higher dose would make it much much easier to stick to a VLCD - indeed my PT was telling me that one of his clients was full on a slice of toast, 6 foot man eating 3 slices of toast a day. Weight fell off…

However, this is not recommended - not by any doctor or suppliers of WLI as a failure to eat above a certain amount risks significant muscle loss - similar to any VLCD.

Look back at the thread - you did say exactly that. You said eating 500-800 cals that BMI of 27 and want to lose 2 stone.

You don’t need to recall. You can just read your posts like we can and yes you said exactly that.

Yes keto has similar results because it’s about limiting carbs which means there is less glucose entering your system so if you are insulin resistant or deficient your body can cope better. GLP-1s just come at that from a different angle, instead of reducing the input of glucose, GLP-1s increase ability to break down the glucose.

i feel fantastic, I’ve lost 10stone, literally half the person I was when I started, my BP is perfect. My cholesterol is normal, my kidney and liver function tests have all improved to normal range. I look brilliant, love shopping for clothes and feel much more confident. I have some loose skin it would be nice to get rid of one day but if you over inflate a balloon for 30 years (been obese since I was 11) then no amount of wishes, workouts and high protein meals are going to give a perfect taut and toned result.

Well, I did this … started on 1 August doing a VLCD (800 cals) plus injections and lost just over 5 stone. I’m now off the VLCD but still on the injections. It’s worked for me.

What’s your definition of worked, to get the weight off? It will always work. Honestly how’s your body and muscle mass, skin tone after?

My body is a lot better than it was at five stone heavier!

It isn’t perfect but to be honest I don’t need it to be. I’m slightly overweight still (I am ten and a half stone; healthy BMI for me is between eight and ten stone but I’m not stressing over a half a stone.)

I was just desperate to lose the weight and lose it quickly so that’s what I did.

my skin tone is shit, I have crepey skin on my thighs, bingo wings and a flappy belly but I was obese at 11years old, I weighed more then than I do now. Over the 32 years between then and now my body has gone up to a size 26, about 22 stone at my very highest, and it’s been pregnant and it’s now peri-menopausal.

I eat a really good diet, I have never starved myself on WLIs just my TDEE - 300-500 calories to give a deficit. I swim or do weights at the gym at least 3 times a week, I eat high protein, high fibre, moderate fat and low carb. None of that will fix 32 years of stretching my skin beyond its capacity to stretch, that’s just simple basic facts.

Yes everyone trying to lose weight should do so following medical advice and sensible guidance, should aim for a healthy balanced diet that gives them all food groups in suitable quantities to power their bodies, but please let’s not pretend that lifting weights and eating lots of chicken and beans is going to produce smooth toned stomachs and anyone who doesn’t end up with that result must have done something wrong.

Yes, I would like to lose 2 stone of fat, not reach an arbitrary weight to hit a scale target.

Thanks for double checking and confirming.

Thanks for your contributions.

I'm confident all will be well in your life journey and beyond.

Best.

That's so great to hear!!!

10 stone is a phenomenal loss!!! I love that you're so healthy and confident.

After 16 stone loss, I also have excess skin and running, walking and gym doesn't fix that, as you know but I know that I'm strong and that's what counts, especially as we get older.

So inspiring!

Wow, 5 stone loss is incredible!

Thanks for letting me know that the loss included BOTH methods. This is what I was asking about as well as the mechanics behind the efficacy of GLP.

Well done!

@ChubbyGroundhog to be honest I have always lost weight on VLCDs. I don’t do very well with choice and flexibility!

My little DD turned two last July and I went back to work (part time) when she was a year old. For most of last year I was juggling DD(1) and her brother who was aged 3/4 and I was wrung out. I had no willpower; I was often eating next to nothing all day then binge eating on takeaways and chocolate and sweets.

So when a colleague recommended Mounjaro I gave it a try along with my ‘normal’ method of losing weight. It’s gone great and I’m so so SO much happier; I don’t need a smooth, taut body, I just want my jeans to fit and to chase DD round soft play without dying!

@notquiteasahm I think you've done great. Sometimes the hardest challenge is finding something that actually works around your family life, social life and just every day cravings and challenges. So, it seems like you've found the working formula!