Anyone interested in a post-MJ thread? For people coming off completely?

[RightImDoingThis]

I wondered if anyone is coming off Mounjaro completely and looking to maintain or continue losing weight?

I'm half way through my last pen and coming off earlier than planned due to the price rise and fatigue with the whole process.

Went out for a curry last night, quite carb heavy. I didn't manage a full meal but it felt nice to really enjoy my food again. Woke up about 3am with rumbling tummy hunger, which was less nice.

@RightImDoingThis Well done it sounds like you're off to a great start! Despite my slight regain of a couple of pounds I have to say post MJ, I don't feel my appetite or food noise has returned "with a vengeance" or anything like you hear some people comment on which is positive. Keep updating us, my first pen of Wegovy is coming today 😬 so hopefully I can shift this last stone and then get my mind fully into maintaining, although if wgvy works well for me I'll plan to taper off rather than cold turkey due to the price increases with MJ! Enjoy the rest of your trip

I saw this YouTuber mentioned and really enjoy her videos. This is only 3 minutes and has an interesting perspectives on set points and overcoming them,

a

Thanks @Loopylou7219 been pretty good today. Lots of steps and very little hunger.

A few days away this week with buffet breakfasts and suppers. Looks like I put a couple of pounds on, which I'll take. I have to say I've found I've had a high appetite and lots of interest in eating. It was on my mind constantly. So, it might not be easy, but I'm feeling hopeful.

I’ve decided to stop. I’ve got one pen of 12mg left. I’ve lost about 3 stones and still have 4 stone to go but I’ve found I’m very tired, my hair is thinning, I’m getting a lot of stomach pains and sulphur burps and my mood is incredibly low (some of this could be attributed to my situation as a carer to a child with profound autism). The mood I’m most concerned about as I’ve never ever felt this bad. But the cost alongside the side effects have encouraged me to stop. I’ve enjoyed feeling full and not have that feeling of being starving. But I think I need to even further address what I’m eating and building in more exercise.

They have really shot themselves in the foot, the amount of people who just aren’t going to pay for it anymore and eeking out the pens. I’m on my last 15mg , I’m rationing it out to 2.5mg a week.

I'm still titrating down. Definitely having more hungry days now but also I've been going to the gym most days so I feel like it's fairly balanced at the moment. I've been looking at natural alternatives, things that boost glp1 naturally and there are things that are worth trying. The key things seem to be having a long enough window of not eating/intermittent fasting, so 16/8 is good, but for menopausal women I think 14/10 is fine, or even 12/12. (Be careful with fasting as you approach menopause because it can raise cortisol and cause other physical stresses, especially on the thyroid.) So, gentle fasting, and then lots of protein - as in 1g for every pound you weigh, topping out at about 150g. You can have 40 grams of protein in every meal. Then adding in supplements like ceylon cinnamon, turmeric, chia seeds, psyllium husk, and green tea may also help. Pre- and probiotics are also good - fat free greek yoghurt with berries covers this. Or you can add kimchi or sauerkraut to meals too.

If you want to try something more hardcore, berberine supplements are good at reducing blood sugar and some people find them really helpful for weight loss. They taste disgusting, very bitter! 5htp can also curb appetite in some people. There are other natural supplements that are reported to have some effect on appetite and blood sugar management. Obviously you need to research these things for yourself and be careful about any contraindications and medicine interactions. Just because something is natural doesn't mean it won't have side effects.

Finally, getting good sleep is absolutely key - even one bad night will raise your insulin levels, and the key to weight loss is reducing insulin. So whatever you can do to get a really good night's sleep every night, do that! It will make your weight loss efforts so much easier.

I do wonder what the price rises will mean for various players in this industry now. I don't know if the number of people stopping MJ will be enough to make an impact.

My mood is definitely better and I feel I have more energy for exercise. I used to fast, and had some success with OMAD. But I agree about the menopause, I'm hearing more and more people talking out against fasting at my stage of life. I'm doing no more than 14 and a half hours daily and don't worry if it's only 12.

4 weeks since the last MJ injection. So far lost 7 pounds. Starting to enjoy food again. My issue has always been portion size. I’m dishing up a smallish portion and that’s it. If still hungry I distract myself by doing something away from the fridge. I’m definitely eating healthier than I was on MJ and moving more. Probably because I’m not feeling nauseous most of the time. The plan is to keep going like this for as long as I can but will probably get a low dose of Wegovy for December to help me stop falling of the Wagon when all the Christmas goodies are out. That’s the plan for now but will see how it plans out.

I agree. I think if you have a 12 hour non-eating window, that is enough. Most of the research about fasting is done with men, and women's bodies are just different. If you're a man, you can do OMAD and have extended fasts and you'll probably lose loads of weight and bring your insulin resistance right down. But for women, even young women, you have to work with your hormones and your cycle. And as you reach menopause age, keep the fasting window small and don't try to follow fitness advice aimed at 22 year old men!

Are you a specialist in this @taylorswift1989 ? Or are you an enthusiastic learner like me?

Haha no I just do a lot of reading! Also I've been working on trying to lose weight and get fit for a really, really long time, and so that's all the stuff I know that actually works for most people, if you're able to implement it. The great thing about MJ is how it took the pressure off, because it took the constant urge to eat out of the equation. But it is entirely possible to lose weight and maintain weight loss without medication. It's just harder because of the mental and emotional side of it, I think. The hunger and food noise starts to make you feel you're at war with your body, and I think we all get tired of feeling that way.

I think many of us have been doing a lot of learning about weight for many, many years. I have to be honest, I'm having quite a strong reaction to how you're writing your posts 🤔. I'm going to have a ponder as to why! :)

Oh okay! Sorry if I'm coming across in a negative way. I'm aware that lots of people are in the same situation as me and are just as interested and knowledgeable about this stuff, if not more - I just wanted to share what I've learned that works, mainly just summarising it for myself, tbh, but also in the hope it will give others some new ideas, as I get new ideas from these threads all the time.

I will come off the thread now and leave you to it as I've no wish to cause any problems. All the best to all on this journey.

No, no need for you to withdraw at all, this is my nonsense not yours :) I only mention it in case you picked up on my tone or lack of warmth. Definitely "my shit, not your shit".

@taylorswift1989 and @RightImDoingThis really interesting reading both your posts and I wondered what you both thought about some of the brain changes MJ can cause. I recently listened to a talk from an obesity specialist who discussed the way these drugs can positively impact the hypothalamus, therefore increasing your body's ability to burn energy rather than store it (I'm assuming this is related to BMR?) and when you stop obviously that stops too. Really interesting because I was definitely in the camp of when I stop I'll just carry on as before with renewed will power etc etc... but actually what I found for the first couple of weeks was that even doing what I was doing before on MJ, calorie numbers etc I still gained about 4Ibs despite not eating anywhere near enough calories, so for me I'm wondering if actually MJ has a bigger impact on me than I'd like to admit and actually do I need to stay on a low dose long term (which I don't really want to do)

I don't want this to sound negative because I know there are absolutely people who stop and maintain just fine and even for me I did find that after an initial gain, I seemed to even out, so this could be a very nuanced issue, and for me I do wonder if I am have insulin resistance/thyroid issues anyway.

Sorry for the long post but just interesting!

@taylorswift1989 do you have links to studies about fasting in women, especially menopausal / post menopausal women? I really like IF and mostly do at least 18:6 so if that might not be ideal I’d be interested to read the relevant research, TIA 🙏

@Loopylou7219 that’s really interesting too - who was giving the talk and where can I find it? I do think that there has been an effect on my metabolism, I just don’t know yet whether it’s because I’m lighter, fitter, more muscular, doing more physical activity, or whether it’s a direct effect of MJ. I suspect the latter and that everything will slow down again if I come off it, bit annoying if so! I have lost 6+ stone and I’m maintaining now and on my way down the doses - really want to come off MJ eventually but it’s quite unnerving not knowing how much of the new me is actually me and how much is MJ 😬

Yes there is trial data out, I read it awhile ago so sorry to anyone if they ask for a link, I’m sure if it’s googled it can be found, but basically what they have found is the drugs don’t trick our brains into thinking we are full. They make our body fat available for fuel, so we don’t feel hungry as we are fully using our body fat. That’s it in lay person terms.

effectively In the study they had three sets of mice, we will talk about two of those sets, for ease for me, the first set on the drugs, the second set not. And fed them the exact same amount. They expected both sets to lose the same amount of weight, they did not. The set on the drugs, lost more weight.

they also found that the set on the drugs had no energy slump usually associated with dieting, they kept as active as before, just as much energy, where as the mice not on the drugs, energy level dropped with the restricted food.

so they then effectively did the same trials on humans, and it was the same. Those on the drugs lost more weight than those not, and didn’t have the same energy slump associated with dieting.

effectively these active ingredients, which are simply synthetic versions of peptides we produce naturally, make the body burn glucose, fat etc for fuel. However as we age, or with other health conditions like obesity, we produce less of them, so an example would be we hear lots of people saying they could eat way more when younger, but thinking their metabolism slowed down, as they aged, but in reality it is likely they produce less of these peptides as they aged and then gained weight.

there is also many other things these peptides do, so for example every illness or injury we have causes inflammation in our bodies, that’s what causes ageing at its core, the cumulative effect to our cells over time. these peptides, which we produce more of when younger, manage that, but again as we produce less as we age and then gained weight, and as the inflammation increases we don’t have enough to deal with the impact.

it looks like these peptides are critical to us, and manage key processes in our bodies, so when we start to produce less we see lots of things start to deteriorate in our bodies. However we need to get the right dosage, as too much and it can have a negative effect.

and it is due to all these things these drugs do, they effectively see them as anti ageing. Not as in we wake up looking 18 when we are 50, but that our bodies start to heal themselves and function correctly.

That's really interesting @Wildfairy thank you for sharing.

Quite often on MN we have threads about whether MJ is "cheating" or not. I don't find that word very helpful, but I never post on those discussions. For me, yes, MJ has felt like "cheating". Losing weight, sticking to a calorie deficit etc has been soooo much easier than anything else I've tried. For me, yes, it has been a "cheat code".
So, it's interesting to read about MJ's possible effect on the brain and body beyond appetite suppression.

Thanks op. I don’t think it’s the brain though, from what I understand, it seems to be very simply we are topping up peptides we produce naturally, that we produce less of as we age, and I guess some people never produce enough of, and by topping them up back to optimal and previous levels, our bodies start to work optimally and as they should, for example managing insulin, blood sugar levels, burning glucose and not storing it as fat, diverting inflammation away from cells, making our fat available for burning as energy.

these are all things our bodies should do. That for many of us used to do, but with the reduction in our own glp peptide production over the years then our bodies stopped doing that optimally as we didn’t produce enough.

I can’t see how it is cheating, or some form of cheat code, and am surprised you used that word, unless it’s someone whose body works optimally and that person simply use the drugs to chase suppression, taking as high a dose as possible and basically starving themselves, For most of us on these drugs we have tried everything under the sun , but the simple fact is we don’t produce enough of the required peptides to make it feasible for us to do so successfully or long term. When we top those naturally produced and vital peptides up, we are able to diet, eat healthy, manage our weight, our appetite etc. for me that’s not cheating, any more than wearing glasses, when your eyesight is poor, or taking insulin if a diabetic.

It is simply a medical advancement where we have learned more about the human body and how it works, what’s required to make it work,and these peptides play a critical role in our functioning. So for me, topping them up with a synthetic version is in no way a cheat.

Thank you for correcting my misunderstanding!
I don’t like the word cheating, as I say, and I like the insulin/statin comparison.

@taylorswift1989 I am also a bit wary of intermittent fasting taken to extremes and how they affect women, because women are different to men. I even wonder, if intermittent fasting can lead to a form of disordered eating, where you don’t listen to normal hunger/hormonal cues. My personal experience also, is that it worked the first time I did it, the second time a few years later it just didn’t. I believe smaller fasting windows may be fine, helpful, but I am dubious about large daily fasting windows.

Such an interesting thread, generally.

I have 3×15 mg pens Mounjara left in my fridge! I’ve lost two stone, with about another stone to go. Even then, I will be a bit above BMI, but that suits me I believe at my age (64) and build.

I currently take 10 mg per week, but plan to reduce this over the coming months. I could eke the pens out till late spring, early summer even, at lower doses eg. 7.5 or 5 mg. To help me lose the last stone and maintain for a bit.

I don’t know how things will go after that. It may just require things like daily weighing and calorie counting to maintain a reasonable ideal weight for me, there is a lot of incentive there once you get where you want to be. It maybe that I put some weight on regardless, but I must remember that there is more to me than whether I‘M a bit overweight. If I really started gaining, it would be difficult to go back on Mounjara or wegovy, because my BMI wouldn’t be high enough at the start and I wouldn’t have ordered any pens for a year., so my old Pharmacist probably wouldn’t accept me back. Is all very complicated, isn’t it?! PS. I found Noom really good two years ago. It was fairly effortless as well. That’s another possibility.

When my pens are finished and I’m at my target weight I would’ve spent £2000 to lose nearly 3 stone. I still think it’s money worth spent. But I’m not totally clear if it is affecting my energy levels, sleep (I’m sleeping slightly more), or mood. But I do wonder if it has affected my “get up and go”.

@Wildfairy your peptide explanation is very clear and makes a lot of sense.