Why are so many people anti WLI

[Mumble12]

I just don’t understand it!

Mounjaro has literally changed my life overnight. It’s dealt with things that I didn’t even know were fixable. Why are so many people (presumably those that haven’t tried them and really have no intention to) so dead against it.

Do people misunderstand how it works? So many people perceive it as cheating…but I can’t fathom the logic - even if it was cheating…so what?! Why do they want people to be miserable and struggle with obesity?

Yes i see your point re calories.

I’m not bothered what she eats as I’m naturally slim, always have been but yes its her bragging, it’s unfair on my colleagues who are trying to lose weight and she’s laughing in their faces.

It’s not that they can’t afford injections, they want to try other ways but her constantly eating unhealthy stuff and bragging makes them resentful xx

You definitely are bothered what she eats. Regardless, if she's stuffing her face with junk food at lunch, then she can't be eating for the other 23 hours a day because you cannot lose weight on Mounjaro (or off it) unless you're in a deficit.

If your colleagues can afford Mounjaro and are choosing not to take it, then they have nothing to resent. They have access to the same thing she does and are choosing not to use it.

For the record I still don't believe a word of it. I used to eat an awful lot of junk. Virtually no fresh food really and exclusively drank Pepsi max. I couldn't tolerate anything like that now on Mounjaro. Literally since day 1 I've not been able to. And even if I did manage it as a one off, I certainly couldn't do it every day. It's almost like a cartoon stereotype you're describing and not at all reflective of real life.

Aaaaaaall of this.

So about that muscle loss.

Weight-loss injections could make you fitter without exercise

https://www.thetimes.com/article/c57f8f96-f575-4d34-b295-2bcc4a61a106?shareToken=3ece9bb02cb9efbd9346aedf574a5eed

Ooh that's interesting, although this line made me laugh...

Anecdotally, there is concern among people who use treatments such as Mounjaro that weight loss will make them less muscular, toned and strong.

I don't think people using WLI are on the whole muscular & toned are they so not sure how likely it is we'll become less of the above 😂

I take your point, but as someone who is short & post meno, I was/am concerned about losing muscle with weight loss. We know this is not a good idea as you get older and I have taken up strength training, to try to avoid losing muscle mass. So although the language in the article is very journo - I think it is a real concern amongst older women.

Yeah it's just poor use of language. Doesn't convey what they want it to.

I was actually - I'm a fitness instructor (yes, I was a fat fitness instructor), so I was muscular, they were just hidden. And losing muscle was a concern. But I have not found credible sources that WLI cause higher muscle loss than losing weight without it. If you lose body mass, but don't eat enough protein and don't to resistance training, you will lose muscle.
Happy to report though that I have been mindful of that, my muscle mass % has actually gone up signigicantly as per my scales and I now look like Lara Croft.

Tho I had a lovely donor kebab the other night. Omg. It was amazing !!

tho I only managed half so ate the other half the next night

before I would eat a whole one. Maybe with onion rings and maybe a pudding

I was a very muscular fatty. I did cross fit. But it was only when I started losing weight on Mounjaro that I saw how muscular I was. I’m 67 and my CrossFit days are over but I still work out, lift weights etc, and though I have loose skin I can see how toned I am. I love glancing down towards my biceps and seeing the definition in my sleeve.

Oh yeah I’m absolutely sure there are people that lay outside of my “on the whole” generalisation. Wasn’t trying to stereotype, it just made me giggle: thought it was poor wording. Glad to hear you’re musclier than ever though 💪

My life is hard enough without continuing to yo-yo diet and be ravenously hungry. I'm happy to pay for 'the easy way' as it takes the pressure off everything else and stops me hating myself and feeling guilty every time I eat.

Possibly but why are you worrying more about what might be a problem 20 years down the line more than the risks to these people right now by being seriously obese.

I’m not worried about it per se. It was my answer to the question of why I’m anti WLI. On an individual level I can completely understand why people use WLI now. But from a population perspective I think they are just setting us up for more, potentially worse issues. And that is a concern because I’m not just thinking about myself, but my children’s generation. I’m disappointed that the government is not doing everything within their power to tackle the underlying issues so the future generations don’t need to resort to WLI.

What worse issues? Mounjaro has had an amazing impact on some of the other health issues that I suffer with. And no, it’s not the losing weight or changing my diet that have been a catalyst for these health improvements. I suffered with them prior to being overweight and my diet hasn’t changed much because it was pretty healthy before, I just eat less now.

My cholesterol went back to the normal range within six weeks - I previously had high cholesterol even when I was a small size 8. I have (or did have) very severe Seborrheic dermatitis. Even with the wonder drug Protopic that my dermatologist prescribed, it wasn’t completely under control. I haven’t had any symptoms in several months now and am no longer needing to use Protopic.

One of the strangest is my plantar fasciitis has gone after three years of battling with it. I thought it must be a coincidence but I have now read of others who have experienced the same.

I have fibrocystic breast disease but my breast pain has massively reduced and my breast is nowhere near as lumpy. It’s going to be interesting to see the results my next mammogram - I have them yearly.

I suffered with gastritis and IBS. Again, no longer having symptoms of these.

The underlying issue is that humans have evolved for an environment where it was a good idea to eat as much calorific food as you could whenever you could get it, and where starvation was an ever present threat. We as a species have the tendency to become overweight and obese easily, because for the overwhelming majority of our history that was an advantage. And our bodies know this.

We don't need to have such an obesogenic environment as well as that, it's true, and we could tackle some of the lower hanging fruit. But we're not going back to the environment we evolved for, which is the only thing that's been proven to work in preventing widespread obesity. It's unproven copium to think we can policy make our way out of this. People just get attracted to the idea because it would be nice if it were true.

You also didn't address the fact that people who are currently obese are liable to require the pharmaceutical industry anyway. There isn't a way to have a majority overweight and obese population, as we do now, that doesn't present Big Pharma with billions.

Yes, my plantar fasciitis has gone too! I'd had in in my right foot for over 18 months having had it in the left for over a year before! Not sure if it's weight loss or that MJ reduces inflammation. Whatever the reason I'm elated as you must be.

As I've lost weight, am exercising and eating well I'm pleased my blood pressure has improved too.

Mentally I'm the best I've been in years too which, as a perimenopausal woman really is something!

This is an interesting and important point. I am choosing to take WLI for my own health but agree that much more needs to be done at a population level to prevent obesity.

And while obesity is a complex problem, things like normalising larger portion sizes, UPFs and telling women that they need an average of 2,000 calories a day is unhelpful.

Commercially, the food industry don’t want us existing on fruit, veg & lentils, but I am interested to see how they will respond to a demand for smaller meals. I predict a return of lean cuisine!

It’s great the WLI are helping so many of you on an individual level, but that is not the reason I’m anti WLI. I’m just of the view that I’d like the government to do something that will help my kids not get fat in the first place, as opposed to setting them up to fail and then reverting to pharmaceuticals to tackle it. I find the view that we are helpless to tackle this at more systemic levels a bit depressing. I’d recommend Henry Dimbleby’s Ravenous as a good read, and someone far more qualified than me on this!

They don’t have to be mutually exclusive. WLI are a fantastic tool and people can still be overweight or obese even if they don’t eat much convenience foods/takeaways/ fizzy drinks etc. I certainly was. I agree that action needs to be taken with regards to the food industry but WLI still have a place.

Easy. I reckon (absolutely skin in the game, just observations):

-People who use it get down to weights people at a "normal" weight dream of (BMI 21 for instance) but can't achieve for the same reasons that others needed MJ, or can only achieve with sacrifice

-It apparently has health benefits above and beyond, such as lower risk of really common but nasty diseases (Alzheimers etc.) which everyone might like the opportunity to benefit from.

No skin, I meant

@Overrunwithlego we are not helpless to address obesity on a system level, but as the PP has said there is no reason to remove a tool that has enabled someone like me to go from super morbidly obese to not being obese, just because the government or society “should” be making changes. Before WLI, those changes were slow to come, so no change in my opinion. WLI are not going to stop or prevent societal change, if that’s what people want. But it never really has been what people want, at least not enough to actually force change.

Whether something is depressing and whether it is true are two very different questions!

And I don't think anyone is saying we shouldn't make improvements. But meanwhile, the idea that they alone will suffice is guesswork. Whereas we know WLIs work as long as they're taken. It's a theory versus concrete evidence.

I can understand why people would like there to be a mechanism for tackling obesity that doesn't enrich Big Pharma. It would be nice if we could all willpower and good choice our way out of millennia of evolution. But nobody has yet proven that this can work at any scale in environments where whole populations have access to more food than they need for the whole of their lives. When some of you do, then and only then will we be able to have a discussion about better options than WLIs.

And meanwhile, you should really have the intellectual honesty to accept that a majority overweight and obese adult population are already enriching Big Pharma. All current options lead to lots and lots of people relying on medication. There isn't a Big Pharma free road in 2025.

Funny how nobody seems to use societal change as a reason for being anti treatment when it comes to other ‘lifestyle conditions’ like high blood pressure, high cholesterol, heart attack, stroke, cancer, COPD, liver disease etc etc. There is often a nasty value judgement peeping out from behind discussions about obesity. To do with a perception of greed and laziness, I suppose. And maybe a bit of superiority and schadenfreude.