Why are so many people anti WLI

[Mumble12]

I just don’t understand it!

Mounjaro has literally changed my life overnight. It’s dealt with things that I didn’t even know were fixable. Why are so many people (presumably those that haven’t tried them and really have no intention to) so dead against it.

Do people misunderstand how it works? So many people perceive it as cheating…but I can’t fathom the logic - even if it was cheating…so what?! Why do they want people to be miserable and struggle with obesity?

@Radionowherewhat are you disagreeing with me about? I said I don’t need to be told, not that it’s not true.

So, my options are to continue to take medication if needed, or to continue with my significant lifestyle changes alone and see how I get on with maintaining. I know this, repeating it isn’t informative or a novel talking point, or news to me and all the other people taking WLI. I’ll happily take my chances at maintaining the weight loss, having spent a year and more getting to a healthy weight. I know that people here think that as soon as I hit my goal weight and stop taking medication it’ll be me straight back into the previous habits that got me obese, but I will be doing everything in my power to prevent that. That’s a much much better option for me than trying again and again and failing again and again to lose weight the “correct” and socially acceptable way.

@Radionowhere weight regain is an issue regardless of how the weight is lost, whether it’s done using WLIs or by willpower and suffering alone.

The below is based on weight loss without Weight Loss injections:

”A large proportion of individuals who achieve significant weight loss ultimately regain a substantial amount of that weight. A meta-analysis of long-term weight loss studies found that more than half of the lost weight is regained within two years, and more than 80% within five years. While weight loss is achievable through various methods, maintaining that loss long-term is significantly more challenging, with weight regain being the typical outcome.

Here's a more detailed breakdown:

• High Regain Rates:
• Studies indicate that as many as 80% to 95% of people who lose a significant amount of weight through dieting will regain it.
• Timeframe for Regain:
• Weight regain can occur relatively quickly, with some studies showing that a substantial portion of weight loss can be regained within the first year or two.
• Factors Contributing to Regain:
• Several factors contribute to weight regain, including metabolic adaptations (the body adjusting to a lower weight and reducing calorie expenditure) and psychological factors.
• Hormonal Influences:
• Hormones play a role in regulating appetite and metabolism, and these can shift in response to weight loss, potentially promoting weight regain.
• Importance of Long-Term Strategies:
• Long-term weight management requires ongoing effort and strategies to maintain a healthy lifestyle, including consistent physical activity and a balanced diet.”

Much of these attitudes have been shown over the years to those who had bariatric surgery. Who remembers the media frenzy when celebs like Anne Diamond, Vanessa Feltz and Sharon Osborne had gastric bands? I suspect it is because, throughout history, fatness has always been equated with gluttony, weakness and sin so remedying it without huge amounts of penitence and suffering is cheating. Now bariatric surgery has become more normalised, those attitudes have faded as I think they will with GLP1s in time.

The only other medications which cause the same "tribal" responses in my opinion are HRT. Some women speak of it as though it is a miracle and anyone not taking it is a mad, shrivelling crone, where others behave as though it is poison and, again, it's cheating to avoid menopause symptoms. Definitely some parallels

Yes, exactly. It's a well trodden path. It will be interesting to see the data further down the line, specifically in relation to this, ie will weight regain to be higher where the appetite has been artificially suppressed? Or will people end up effectively on these drugs forever, and what effect will that have?
I have no skin in the game either way, but I do have an interest in health outcomes.

People do know this I think. I don’t know anyone obese that doesn’t realise that they need to reduce their calorie intake to lose weight or maintain a weight loss. I genuinely don’t think I could name one person that thinks they’ll inject mounjaro and the weight will vanish and stay off forever.

But WLI aren’t going to have a higher rate of weight regain than any other method because all methods of weight loss only work when your calorie intake is lower than your output. If you don’t keep that up, you’ll regain weight.

If they are needed forever, that’s not really a huge issue imo, someone prescribed the same medication for diabetes would likely be on it forever, same with many other chronic conditions.

When the medicine was just prescribed for diabetes I he genuinely can’t recall any moral panic about “what if diabetics are stuck taking it forever”, or what about the side effects for diabetics.

Which essentially is what led me to asking the question in the first place because people only seem to have issues with medication if they’re helping fat people.

@Mumble12 yep! I’m on it for diabetes and there’s been no discussion or suggestion about stopping at any point. My HbA1C has improved dramatically and all decisions about my dose are based around my sugar levels not my weight. I’ve gone from BMI 33 to 23, I have a few more pounds I want to lose as still a fair bit of excess on my belly and I’d like to try to get to the belly circumference target of below 31.5 inches as above that is deemed high risk for women. I’m currently at 33inches.

i anticipate being on Mounjaro very long term and am perfectly fine with that. The risks of uncontrolled diabetes and/or obesity are higher and worse so if given the choice, I’ll stay on Mounjaro forever.

I think the only difference with Mounjaro is that the “food noise” has been suppressed for so long it might be a shock how hungry sisters feel when they come off it. But I’m hoping that will hopefully wear off. And personally I’m hoping that it will be easier to deal with a stone or so increase at the bottom end of the weight loss journey (when that’s all you need to lose) than it has been starting with several stones to lose. It won’t feel such a mamouth task.

Do you think people on WLI believe they can get to their goal weight, stop taking the WLI, go back to eating as they did before and remain at their goal weight? Do you really believe that’s what people think?

There are some really good posts on this thread. So fantastic to hear pp’s weight loss successes and how their health and life has been transformed. Makes me smile :)

Current NHS guidance is that they can be taken for up to two years for weight loss, from memory. That may well be extended over time, it seems likely as it's not a new drug.
I think the difference in your analogy is fairly obvious in that diabetes is a chronic medical condition, as you say. Is obesity a medical condition, on its own? I don't think most people would view it as such although it's often a contributing factor.

Ultimately, for people who have never had a serious weight problem it can be difficult to understand why medication should be needed perhaps? All you have to do is stop eating too much...except of course if it was that easy no one would be overweight. Bit like telling an alcoholic to just stop drinking, seems easy - if you're not an alcoholic.

We are a nation of fatties statistically, it's a problem that needs to be addressed. We've completely lost sight of what a healthy weight is, how much food we actually need, and how much we need to move to stay fit and healthy. Will these drugs help, of course.

I think some of it is a misapprehension of how they actually work. People seem to think they affect metabolism or absorption. That people taking them are eating their usual amount and losing weight. When it fact they are eating much less and that is what leads to the weight loss.

Wegovy can be taken for 2 years, Mounjaro can be taken without a time limit.

Obesity is absolutely a medical condition, recognised as such by the NHS.

I think the reluctance of the public to label it as such is probably because it’s usually self inflicted - you got yourself into this, you get yourself out type of mentality.

Regardless of the reason for taking it, the potential side effects are the same, so I still can’t understand there being no worry for diabetics long term health but ‘concern’ for the long term health of obese people taking it.

There's "other" data coming through now, wish I could remember the details, I was chatting to a GP about it. Relates to other benefits such that one of the two may be a viable alternative to statins? It's really interesting.

The press coverage is reminding me of the excitement, ahem, around Viagra back in the day.😆

I don't think this is the first time that drugs have been prescribed for weight loss, quite literally. Seem to recall speed being prescribed for such purposes? 🥴

Yes I would agree with your first point, similar to NHS paying for rehab for drink/drug abuse maybe. I think you can see similar mixed feelings around that.
The press are publishing endless photos of, for example, the Osbourne's, looking really quite unwell and speculating that it's due to weight loss drugs, this impacts on public perception.
Without that, I think most people would have similar concerns for long term drug use for any reason, ie is it safe? When the results of implied misuse are being so widely publicised people will start to speculate that it isn't. That's purposeful stirring by the tabloids, they'll lose interest.

Starting to get really cross with the patronising finger waggers on this thread. It really does illustrate the ‘Fat People Must Also Be Stupid’ trope. Bloody hell. This is why I don’t tell many people I am on it.

Why are people anti WLI - I think a lot of it is down to misunderstanding or ignorance or about the nature of obesity, how these drugs work and what the research data says. As demonstrated over and over again by posters on this thread 🙄

I get mine from my local pharmacy who have a close working rekationship with my GP practice so the argument that I’m buying them in an ‘unsafe’ manner doesn’t wash with me. I am monitored every month by a pharmacist who has access to my full medical history and ongoing hospital visits at the touch of a computer keyboard.

i am concerned by the hype around these medications though, the way they are advertised and how they are part of some bizarre pricing war.

i think they should have a standard price, perhaps set by NICE (maybe something like 20% above the current NHS purchase price) and they need stricter codes than just ASA regulations for advertising.

I saw yesterday that the NHS will not be able to prescribe the newest alzheimer slowing drugs yet I don’t see the online pharmacies rushing to create a hype around them. The same pharmacies that have tapped into a huge market with WLIs and are fully capitalising on it using any tactic they can, because weight loss is viewed as desirable, almost taking WLIs into aesthetics not medicinal, which doesn’t sit right with me

as an aside I last had a jab on the 14th Feb and then not again until 6th June due to medical treatment and hospital stays and I only put 1lb back on in this time. So some people may regain others may not, the real life stories aren’t in yet so we don’t know for sure.

Sorry that was far longer than I intended it to be

Any posters here curious about maintenance, we have a thread going here: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/weight-loss-injections/5252687-youve-reached-your-goal-weight-come-chat-about-maintenance-not-regaining-going-cold-turkey-or-titrating-down?utm_campaign=thread&utm_medium=share

Really pleased to say that most posters seem not to be piling it all back on. Lots of different experiences and challenges.

I see it as just levelling the playing field. A lot of people just do not struggle with over eating and 'food noise' and they don't need to control it because it is just not there. I don't know why some people are more prone to negative behaviours around food, but it's not something anyone chooses.

"I saw yesterday that the NHS will not be able to prescribe the newest alzheimer slowing drugs yet I don’t see the online pharmacies rushing to create a hype around them. The same pharmacies that have tapped into a huge market with WLIs and are fully capitalising on it using any tactic they can, because weight loss is viewed as desirable, almost taking WLIs into aesthetics not medicinal, which doesn’t sit right with me"

This is a total red herring. The new Alzheimer's medications are nothing at all like GLP1 medications. They cost tens of thousands of pounds per patient per year, they need to be infused into the patient's spinal cord to administer them and the patient needs regular brain scans to monitor for dangerous side effects. And the outcome is only that they potentially delay the transition from mild to moderate dementia by four-to-six months.They are not even slightly comparable.

I got the point, nothing she's said is made up, it is a very different drug and not something that could be prescribed online for use at home in the same way GLP1s are. Although weight loss is an easy thing to sell, I imagine if someone had affordable and easily administered drugs they could sell online to cure alzheimers or cancer, people would be clamouring for those too.

It is a discussion, you've made a point, she's countered it.

I imagine the rest of your post wasn't quoted because she agreed with everything else you wrote maybe. Your post is only a couple above, so I found it easily enough.