Everyone just hates fat people

[mamabeeboo]

Yes I'm fat and yes I'm taking the WLI.

I've had it out with a friend of a friend during a catch up dinner yesterday and I'm fuming.

I've lost some weight and still have a good 5 or so stone more to go before I'm anywhere near the 'normal' BMI category. So no, I'm not wasting away or disappearing, or losing weight too fast.

The mistake I made was being honest about the jabs. But I stand by it, I think it's important to get healthy, regardless of how you do it, just get there.

ANYWAY, this person has suddenly decided to feel concerned for my health, now that the loss has become noticeable. With some silent nods from others about how you should 'just eat less and move more'. No shit is that what was supposed to do?!

A big discussion about:
just have willpower
just have smaller portions
do it the normal way, you don't know what you're putting into your body
it's not healthy
just put down the fork
it's about dicipline
it's not really losing weight though, is it (huhh??)
it's more rewarding to do it the normal way so you can feel achievement

It's gotten me thinking of how so many people just hate fat people. You want us to pay for being fat, to suffer at the gym doing workouts we don't like or can't do with joint pain and back pain etc. You want us to 'just have willpower' like it's that easy. You want us to try all the diets and fail so you can feel superior with your 'discipline' and that you 'look after your body'.

You hate the fact that these WLI have levelled the playing field.

I said all this yesterday and it became very frosty. These aren't my friends, I was there for the birthday girl, but I won't sit there and take it.

I'm posting because I'd love to hear what you might have heard when talking about WLI. (Or if anyone agrees with the above 🤔)

I didn't mean to be snarky in my earlier post. I feel defensive, when perhaps there is no need to be.
Apologies.

I don’t think society hate fat people but you are young to receive some negativity from people who DO eat well and go to the gym to stay in shape. You can’t expect to be applauded for losing it via jabs.

that said, I think they are a great invention for those who can’t do it any other way. I am worried about what is in them and the long term effects but it has to be better to weigh less for your joints / heart / lungs etc so on balance they are good?

also worth noting that if you find an exercise you like it will produce endorphins and literally make you happy. I use it for mental health, really don’t fancy doing it but always feel better when I do

But who or what are we cheating? Am I cheating you in some way by needing help to do what you've been able to manage without help? Or cheating myself out of the hard way experience? Or cheating someone else altogether?
I don't see @lovealongbath as cheating for using HRT, even though I can't use it myself because of a history of blood clots. I'd love to have the option, as I think it would make some of my peri symptoms easier, but her use of it isn't cheating just because it's not an option for me, or because she's not unnecessarily suffering through.

I was just waiting for that one from someone! You got there first.
It's hard to understand how YOU find it hard to comprehend.

I was remiss not to address the cancer aspect of being overweight.

However, you can't deny that although many cancers are fuelled by weight, many other people who are very 'healthy', slim, always exercised, never smoked or drank to excess are struck down by cancer.

And NICE has to balance the books with the costs for their treatment and the rest of the NHS budget.

The cost of diabetes clinics is huge- do some googling and you'll find it costs £billions a year.

That money could go into cancer research or treatments.

Good thing nobody is doing it to get your respect, then.

I have taken a stand and decided to tell EVERYONE that comments on my weight loss.. because it is a fucking miraculous medication that has almost certainly extended my life span. I can compare it to penicillin. I have no spleen and am therefore susceptible to overwhelming infection and would have been dead at 25 without antibiotics. WLI have done the same. After a childhood, adolescence and early motherhood as a skinny person .. I developed a condition that required steroids , and an underactive thyroid . I piled on the weight until at my max I was 19 stone. I was on meds for high blood pressure, high cholesterol, anti depressants because it made me so sad .. injections in my knees which were knackered from carrying my weight… Mounjaro changed all that . I’m now 9stone. Size 8. The only medication I take is thyroxine but even that has been reduced by half.. and a maintenance dose of MJ..

so NO !! I refuse to pretend this drug is not fabulous and play into the pretence that I have eaten less and moved more - although that is EXACTLY what I do now as it no longer hurts my body to do so..

That was rude. I didn't know either, no one's pretending to be naive.

"you are going to receive some negativity from people who DO eat well and go to the gym to stay in shape. You can’t expect to be applauded for losing it via jabs."

@babasaclover why is it expected to receive negativity from people who eat well and go to the gym to stay in shape? What is the rationale for that negativity - presumably you agree with them and can explain why they feel negative towards obese people using WLI?

The OP wasn't asking or looking for applause, she was answering questions about her weight loss and received lots of judgemental and ignorant comments.

I’ve been fortunate never to struggle with my weight, but I’ve experienced incredibly similar behaviour when it comes to good skin/bad skin.

My dd suffered from terrible acne in her early teens and I received so much unprompted advice from the mothers of girls in her class with perfect skin about the best face washes, cleansers, moisturisers etc. They seemed to think my daughter’s acne was the product of bad hygiene, while their daughters’ clear faces were the result of their diligent skincare routines. Of course, 80-90% of the time it’s simply genetic and the fancy face washes make zero difference.

When her acne eventually cleared up and people asked what had worked, I was open (with her permission) about the fact that she’d taken Roaccutane. This was met with huge disapproval from a number of mothers - along the lines of, ‘Oh, I’d never let my daughter take such a harsh drug with all those side effects. Haven’t you heard about all the suicides?’ They simply didn’t understand that this was an actual medical problem that only medication could fix.

People have a lot of opinions about things they know next to nothing about.
I just file them under “irrelevant” and change the topic.

I’ve had people tell me why I shouldn’t take Ritalin for adhd. My dm has people who tell her why she shouldn’t need insulin for her diabetes. My asthmatic friend gets advice on breathing exercises to give up ventolin. My schizophrenic uncle gets told that he should take up yoga. My friend who has been in and out of psychiatric care for depression gets treated to stories of people who kicked depression through positive thinking.

But for @mamabeeboo I have no idea why people act like that. The only reason I can think of is that someone would be worried because it's an injection, but I don't know the ins and outs. If you feel good, it's working and you're healthy, then who cares what anyone else thinks.

To add though, I do not hate fat people and would never judge anyone's choices, so it just sounds like these people are A holes generally (unless a concerned close person who is worried about side effects).

Until WLI injections and all the threads I had never heard anyone talk about food noise before.

I honestly thought it was just me. I would never have admitted to anyone that I thought about food all the time and worried would I have enough to eat. That I had no ability to refuse or put down my fork. I thought I was just very lazy and weak willed.

It has been so enlightening and freeing to me to hear I am not alone and to realise that I am not lazy.

I think that this revolution is scary for the thin people because they have for years been smugly satisfied that they eat less and move more and if we fatties just did the same we could be thin and smug like them.

But now it turns out that wasn't going to work for us fatties and that in order for us to be able to eat less and move more we need a bit of medical help.

Well fuck them. I am getting thin. I am healthy. I feel better than I have done for years.

I am in my mid 50's.
I have been obese pretty much since my late teens.
I am the child of a naturally thin mother and have a naturally thin sister. Healthy eating and exercise were the mainstay of my upbringing.

Yet I became fat. Pretty much as soon as my periods started and my body began to change.
I have followed one diet or another all my adult life. You name it, I have done it.
I have denied myself food. Beaten myself up. Destroyed my self esteem, in the pursuit of thinness. I have lost weight. Then put it all back on again. Over and over again. The self-loathing increased with each re-gain.
I know the mechanics of eat less and move more. I have eaten less and moved more. Repeatedly.
But somehow, my body always, always, found ways of regaining.

Was it lack of willpower? Was it a hormonal or blood sugar imbalance? Was I just a greedy mare?

I don't know.

All I know is that now there is a tool that may, just may, help me come off the weight loss / weight gain / self loathing cycle.
It may, just may, allow me to enter my 60's with a healthier body and a healthier mind.

I am not in competition with anyone. I am only trying to make myself healthier.
If I could do it without spending £150 a month I would.

But I have a lifetime of failed dieting to tell me I need the help.

And people who are, by your description "very healthy" are similarly "struck down" with diabetes and joint issues.

You are absolutely right that obesity increases demand for health services, as does smoking, alcohol use, contact sports, and the list could go on forever.

If everyone stopped doing anything the NHS budget could be slashed to zero - or, perhaps, it can be recognised that human beings have all sorts of ways of damaging their health and well being, and that we should always aim to treat the human being rather than those perceived weaknesses?

I get treated much differently now I’m skinny

Or rather than a binary choice between applause and negativity, we could have option C which is to simply stay out out of it. Mind one's business. Treat other people's weight management with the same indifference most of us treat many things as we go through life.

Unfortunately I do think you're right about the likelihood of receiving negativity, because we as a society have a looooot of odd baggage about this and some people struggle with boundaries and manners. But those people, in their turn, need to expect responses they probably won't like.

If they were your friends, I would be saying it was possible that they may actually be worried, that the injections may do you some harm. As they were just friends of a friend, I wouldn't give them another thought. We don't know their thought processes. I worry about the effects of cosmetic procedures on some of my friends - and secretly judge them, for not supporting natural ageing for women, but I keep that to myself, tell my self off for being judgey, and I'm happy that they are happy.

Personally I wouldn't have allowed it to become an open conversation. I'd have shut it down very, very quickly. Your friend is being an over-bearing ass.

So sorry but the playing field isn't levelled at all and you're being delusional if you think it is. Someone who injects themselves to reduce hunger to lose weight is not on the same level as someone who truly worked hard to get fit and eat well.

I have been fighting my weight every day since I was a child. Every day. Every hour.
My husband has never even thought about his. He's naturally slim. Has not dieted or restricted himself from eating exactly what and as much as he wants.

How about that as a level playing field? Who exactly is the one working hard here?

Do you have similar worries about weighwatchers/Slimming world/keto/fast800/intermittent fasting etc etc - I mean, most people who have lost weight will put it back on, so we should go tell anybody trying to lose weight by any means to better no bother?

I am overweight and losing weight by changing my diet and exercising more. I hate taking medication of any kind and have heard the jabs can make some people feel sick. I'd hate that. I'm doing what is what is working for me at the moment. It is none of my business how other people lose weight, if taking the WLI helps them and they are happy doing it then that's great. Some people just like to criticise others I think.

I am retired and have been overweight for a lot of my adult life . I’ve tried and failed to lose weight many times . I was a tablet controlled type 2 diabetic for a few years when I caught covid which sent my diabetes spiraling . I was in hospital for over a week and was started on large doses of insulin to control my blood sugars . My consultant started me on mounjaro last November and I have lost 3 stones so far but, more importantly, I am now off insulin and my blood sugar levels are much closer to normal . I am hoping to lose another 3 stones .
today on the news it said scientists reckon the injections can almost half your chance of getting cancer !
nothing wrong with WLI .

I've been telling everyone and nobody has been nasty at all. I can see I'm lucky because some people on my month thread have had really upsetting experiences and are doing everything secretly. It's horrible for them. But for me, no, it's all just been interest and passing conversation, and I've also learned that five people I know are already on them! 😂

The conversation around it has gone differently with different people. My feminist friends have talked about shame and the body and how society may change once weight becomes as inconsequential a medical issue as short sightedness. My engineering friends are more interested in the hormone signalling processes and what is going on under the hood. My next door neighbour just wants to know if I still want a glass of wine in the sunshine (I do). One friend talked to me about how upset it made her feel and how difficult she found the idea of changing my desires, changing my self...it's not like everyone has been super positive but that's understandable because everyone has their own hangups and emotions about bodies! But nobody has been nasty to me.

Quite a few people have said they wouldn't want to do it, but that's fine isn't it? I'm not recruiting!

I have a lot of weight to lose, and my weight loss is currently stalling.

I've read a LOT of the literature around the WLI, as well as anecdotal stories from individuals who take them.

I'm not comfortable with how they're being prescribed (ie/lack of proper checks and financial incentives to refer others for the injections), and I don't feel reassured about the long-term effects. To provide context, I ALWAYS end up with the "rare" side-effects from meds. For example, I developed a blood clot from the COVID jab. For that reason, I'm particularly cautious.

As it stands right now, I'm not going to take the injections. But I will keep up to date with research, and if there comes a point where more data on non-diabetics is available, then I'll reconsider if I'm still fat.

I think the stories in the media are part of the problem. I've seen stories reported about deaths due to Mounjaro, and just today, I saw a headline about what happened when they stopped taking it. There are plenty of negative stories around the WLI which are true, but they get a lot of attention. And I think that sticks in people's consciousness.

I don't think people hate fat people, and I'd certainly hope your friends don't hate you.

The truth is that it's virtually impossible to have a well-reasoned discussion about WLI because both sides tend to be very entrenched with their views and are very hostile to any opinion that doesn't fit their narrative.

I think if someone is taking weight loss medication they ARE fighting hard to get healthy and lose weight. It's just one part of the process, not the whole answer.