Jabs and the impact on society

[Onand]

DP and a few friends are all MJ converts, the confidence and renewed self confidence is very real.

It’s got me wondering whether we’re going to see a cultural shift from the era of ‘body positivity’ as more people take up the injections and realise the real benefits of a healthier BMI long term. Will we see a return of the stigma attached to obesity that had started to diminish during the last decade with a broader acceptance of being overweight and an industry that supported it from plus size retailers and of course the food industry.

As more people start using the jabs the number of obese people in society will significantly drop leaving behind those who either can’t take the jabs for financial or medical reasons, won’t take them or simply wish to be as they are -as the ‘fat people’ whereas before so many ‘over eaters’ who are now on MJ would also be in the crowd with them.

Is the body confidence attitude going to switch particularly for women? Stocking plus sizes in the numbers we see now will slowly start to be loss making. Walking around my local shopping centre there are plenty of bigger girls wearing cropped tops, tight fitted clothing all with amazing make up- it’s ‘a look’ and you can see they’re not ashamed because they’re not an anomaly- yet.

@flowersintheatticus you must have an interesting friendship and acquaintance group if loads of women you know are illegally acquiring prescription medication and being open about it to people they talk to.

Is it illegal? I bought mine from an online pharmacy, as do they. I know of others who buy the injections abroad too. Edited: don't know if this is still the case, but one used to get them through a beauty clinic.

Yes it's fraudulent to obtain prescription medication by lying. It is also illegal to sell prescription medication if you are not legally dispensing a legally issued prescription. So beauticians are committing an offence if selling prescription only medication.

Online pharmacies that do a medical consultation which is reviewed by a doctor and the prescribed by a registered pharmacist is absolutely fine. But of course as I already said, if the person filling out the consultation is lying and actively trying to obtain medication they don't qualify for, then they are committing fraud.

What's the criteria to get it from an online pharmacy? I had to fill in an online questionnaire thing and it said a doctor would approve it. Can't remember what was in it though. I don't think it's that shady though, historically the lengths women have gone to to keep slim are quite extraordinary.

@HansHolbein we may need a larger bingo card

Of course it's shady if they are lying on a medical consultation.

You generally have to provide your height and weight, details of any medical issues and medications that you're taking. Provide evidence of your weight, such as dated photos of your body showing your figure and photos of you stood on scales. If your BMI is not over 30 (or over 27 with weight related health issues, or belonging to certain ethnic groups) then you don't qualify and won't be prescribed. Certain medical issues will also exclude you.

Going to extraordinary lengths to be "slim" doesn't mean those lengths are sensible or legal. Clearly.

For the record, my weight loss motivation is to be healthy, not "slim" and I don't really care what my body actually looks like afterwards if I am at a healthy weight.

@Pumpkinforever I think we need to add

You’ll get pregnant!

and..

I know loads of people on it who shouldn’t be on it!

No, none, all the global heath authorities, from the fda on, thought fuck it. And approved for weight loss. 😃

yes of course, there is plent, the trials and data required prior to licenses and approval is beyond onerous since thalidomide.

99.9% of us are paying for private prescriptions from licensed companies. Perfectly legal and above board.

@JurassicPark4Eva yes I know, I am too, have been for almost 6 months now. I was responding to another poster who claims to know loads of women who are not overweight or obese who are buying injections from beauty clinics or "abroad" just to be "slim". Which seemed very unlikely to me, or that particular poster has an unusual circle she moves in.

Why aren't non-obese people allowed the injections? Like if they just want to lose a stoke or two.

The benefits aren't worth the potential risk.

But then why don't people have to stop taking them when they're a healthy weight

In order to avoid regaining weight, if that's an issue for them.

There's a big difference between someone who was obese and has been taking the injections and tolerating them for many months, and an already healthy weight person starting to take them when they don't need to lose any weight.

Fair enough

I think the original OP of this thread was really interesting, and that we live in interesting times.

i can’t decide if either this is going to transform society and obesity will become rarer, Or if it’s going to be a fleeting thing because people don’t end up staying on the on forever (or they stop being effective) or there’s some sort of future health scandal about them.

i am on them by the way, losing weight slowly and steadily and will realistically regain if I ever stop (binge eater)

From the original post: "....more people take up the injections and realise the real benefits of a healthier BMI long term. Will we see a return of the stigma attached to obesity that had started to diminish during the last decade with a broader acceptance..."

I don't know why people think obese people don't realise the "real benefits of a healthier BMI". Every obese person knows that obesity is not healthy and not beneficial.

As for "return of stigma", the stigma attached to being obese hasn't gone anywhere and lots of the comments on these threads show that.

I think WLI will change society for the better if they are given a chance. If it was within my remit I would start by giving them to NHS frontline medics and those who are tasked with administering them so they could actually experience how life-changing they can be.

I think they’ll be in widespread use within 10 years and there will be a noticeable fall in adult obesity, and especially morbid obesity. I agree that as a result the “signifier” will probably change to something like being massively jacked as that still requires money ( and thinness is essentially a proxy for wealth at the moment). However, society will still reap the benefits and id expect them to discover some co- benefits as well - ie they they reduce risk of other conditions. How big food will respond remains to be seen but it’s likely that food will increase in price over the next 10 years anyway so people won’t want to be buying loads of it unnecessarily.

Interesting times.

Why aren't non-obese people allowed the injections? Like if they just want to lose a stone or two

This will happen quite quickly IMO, it's the obvious target group for companies to widen the criteria, and allow those who are overweight but not obese to take it, partly for prevention, if they can show the risk/benefits are reasonable. Plenty of only overweight or even normal weight people are taking it having come down from an obese BMI so it should be relatively easy to demonstrate this and they will be highly motivated to do so.

I think losing two stone would be the difference between being obese and just a little overweight for someone short like me!

It isn’t about what companies target, it’s about what the regulatory authorities allow, and they won’t allow this, not any time soon. The risk is too high and it’s too difficult to monitor. And by high risk I mean people who don’t need it taking it and becoming ill, reckless usage. If you widen it, then even more people who shouldn’t be taking it will.

it is very different allowing a formally obese person, who is completely tolerant to the drugs, continuing to take it to prevent weight regain, and thus even worse health effects, than allowing someone with a small amount to lose to take it. The abuse would be huge.

I honestly think people forget this is a very serious prescribed medication.

You can’t give nhs workers drugs so they can experience it. Good grief. What’s next, have a crack at menthadone? If a nhs person wants them. And fits the criteria they can get them like everyone else.

again, are people forgetting this is a prescription only medication?

@ThatCoralShark I completely disagree, expanding out the boundaries of who is allowed the medication is the next step, there's been a lot of research showing that even a 'healthy' BMI is too high to tackle some risks, and I think the risk/benefit ratio will be assessed to be positive for overweight people to get into the normal weight category fairly soon. It won't stay as only for obese people for 10 years, for sure. It's turning out to be a relatively safe medication scaled up, compared with many, and I'm pretty sure once the pill version comes out it will be more widely available. I don't want to use it for maintenance, but that will be how it's being used- what's the higher risk of an overweight person taking MJ who isn't currently allowed to be prescribed MJ compared with someone who is overweight now and used to be obese til they took MJ who are already legally prescribed these medications? Their risk is going to be equal, if not lower in the overweight person.

@ViolaPlains I’m not sure actually, I think perhaps in the younger generation like people in their early 20s and/or families where obesity is norm across the generations may have lost sight of the benefits of a healthy BMI and aren’t as bothered about being obese? That’s the impression I get from the body positive movement etc, and it is very easier to get a wider range of clothing that if ever was.

but that’s just my impression, I might be wrong.

It is very different allowing a formally obese person, who is completely tolerant to the drugs, continuing to take it to prevent weight regain, and thus even worse health effects, than allowing someone with a small amount to lose to take it. The abuse would be huge

I don't see the difference, in fact, the risk to the formerly obese person is probably higher as they still are more likely to have the visceral fat around their organs- the fact that it's not a deadly drug for the most part in a group that is most likely to experience poor health is quite significant.

The abuse is unlikely to be large, IMO, because they will be given a lower dose for their overweight status, or given it for a short time period, to reset their weight to 'normal'.

I don't love this class of drugs, they are impressive in some ways but the source of the problem, which is the obesogenic environment and food isn't being tackled, but the acceptance of these drugs has been pretty high and the regulatory authorities will already been assessing these further possibilities, they are working out how to prescribe it and roll it out en mass in the NHS at this very moment.

Perhaps that remark was in relation to adjusting to the drugs and the side effects? It is amazing how your tolerance to them changes over time. A person with a lower BMI starting at the current entry dose could experience quite significant side effects