Jabs and the impact on society

[Onand]

DP and a few friends are all MJ converts, the confidence and renewed self confidence is very real.

It’s got me wondering whether we’re going to see a cultural shift from the era of ‘body positivity’ as more people take up the injections and realise the real benefits of a healthier BMI long term. Will we see a return of the stigma attached to obesity that had started to diminish during the last decade with a broader acceptance of being overweight and an industry that supported it from plus size retailers and of course the food industry.

As more people start using the jabs the number of obese people in society will significantly drop leaving behind those who either can’t take the jabs for financial or medical reasons, won’t take them or simply wish to be as they are -as the ‘fat people’ whereas before so many ‘over eaters’ who are now on MJ would also be in the crowd with them.

Is the body confidence attitude going to switch particularly for women? Stocking plus sizes in the numbers we see now will slowly start to be loss making. Walking around my local shopping centre there are plenty of bigger girls wearing cropped tops, tight fitted clothing all with amazing make up- it’s ‘a look’ and you can see they’re not ashamed because they’re not an anomaly- yet.

It’s more inevitable on weight watchers. 97 percent of people regain the weight. All of it. Average diet regain on slimming world is 95 percent of people regain.

on diets over all it’s 85 percent regain the weight.

100percent and above of original loss.

wegovy/ozempic is similar but a lower percentage, about 66 percent regain, and a smaller amount,

on mounjaro it is an average regain of 14 percent, much lower.

I get your point is anecdotal. And it is wonderful you will be in the 3 percent of weight watchers followers who do not regain. But statistically nearly everyone else does.

I’m genuinely surprised, as I’ve seen it in a few threads now, people suddenly deciding diets like weight watchers and slimming world you’re more likely to keep the weight off.

i honestly thought it was common knowledge nearly every single person regains , all of the weight and often more, these diets don’t work long term. Genuinely I thought that was common knowledge and am very surprised we have people popping on saying the drugs don’t work try weight watchers, when it is evidenced the drugs do work, and weight watchers and it’s ilk don’t.

I don't think that many people using weight loss injections think they are "doing it themselves". I think the vast majority are amazed at the impact the medication has and very clearly recognise that it's the medication that's making the difference.

I think it's very relevant that whilst using Mounjaro I'm not obsessing about food and hyper focussed on it like I would be through doing calorie restriction on its own. I don't feel deprived and like I'm punishing myself. I'm getting used to and comfortable with my new normal and all the changes that have happen as a result of the medication. I'll be taking it for the best part of a year to get to my target weight, and then may continue for longer for a period of maintenance if necessary. That's much longer than any other diet that I've managed before, and a lot of time to embed different behaviour. I think that will make a lot of difference.

But maybe I'm a naive fool and I'll just balloon back to 22st and then more.

Then you can pop off down weight watchers and sort it for good 🤣

as you don’t feel deprived , you’re not sitting craving shit and denying yourself on the jabs, you are more easily able to retrain yourself . Hence I suspect why mounjaro help long term keeping the weight off, there is also clearly something in the chemistry also, because wegovy/ozempic doesn’t have the same success factors,

Monjaro is new (May 2024) as it is a GLP1/GIP combination. All the GLP1 agonists eg Ozempic have been used to treat type 2 diabetes for almost 20 years, so yes, lots of long-term data.

I don't think anyone has linked to this Economist article yet

https://www.economist.com/finance-and-economics/2024/10/24/the-economics-of-thinness-ozempic-edition

Basically it's saying that once thin is 'easy' (subjective term!) then it won't be coveted so much, or be seen as a good thing. The rise in weight lifting amongst women especially young ones is thought to be replacing because a slim but strong body is hard to achieve.

As lots of people who have been overweight know, there are some people who don't want others to lose weight because it feels like they lose their perceived advantage. They also don't want weight loss to be easy as it takes away their perceived achievement.

There is an oral GLP1 agonist already, Rybelsus.

I'm not sure why above posters felt I was being smug about losing weight through diets? I'm fat because I don't have willpower. I have a very positive association with food, that means I eat too much. I've never even tried SW or WW as I don't like the type of foods they recommend. I lost a lot of weight on Saxenda and thought my system had reset itself. My point is it was only the chemical effects of it that was controlling my appetite/cravings. I'm only pointing out it's not a short term solution on it's own. Neither is bariatric surgery. If you have psychological food issues this needs to be addressed alongside if you want to keep the weight off.

I think that other people are not inevitably going to make the same assumption that taking a medication for a fixed period has somehow permanently reset their system. I take medication for various things, none of which will be permanently fixed by taking that medication. I make no assumptions that Mounjaro would be an exception to that.

The task of maintenance is as much or more of a challenge as losing the weight in the first place. And with Mounjaro, I know I need never go back to a BMI of 35, 40, 45 or 50. I can take a maintenance dose or restart taking it if my BMI gets back up to over 30 at any point. Actually for me, over 27 given my other health issues.

What we see with celebrities is a size 12 going to size 8, so will we also see this happening more generally amongst wealthier women too? And if that's the case will they have to stay on it forever?
I wonder if yoga studios in L.A. Are now full of already slim women using it to be slimmer.

There's that bit of my brain saying "It's too good to be true."

www.standard.co.uk/lifestyle/wellness/microdosing-ozempic-the-new-weight-loss-trend-b1192469.html#:~:text=%E2%80%9CMicro%20dosing%20typically%20involves%20starting,health).

archive.ph/LEQsr
The Allure of Microdosing

There's some recent articles on microdosing and potential protection against other conditions including inflammation.

I watch with interest and some curiosity.

I completely disagree with @JurassicPark4Eva. Every Diabetic Consultant I have spoken to says there just isn't enough historical data yet on the long term effects of GLP-1's.

The British Diabetic society won't even recommend low carbing (aka Michael Mosley) because they say there isn't enough long term data on how it affects people.

Which is true. I'd want 30-50 years of data, to know how'd it'd affect me, long term. Wouldn't you?

Shall we get the bingo card out of the way now?

I know it’s not aimed at me, but no, I don’t need fifty years of data. The 30 plus they have now, including trials is enough for me, but get everyone’s risk analysis is different,

@Oblomov24 do you mean Diabetes UK? They describe low carbing on their website as a way of losing weight and managing blood glucose levels. They say that evidence shows it to be safe and effective for people with type 2 diabetes.

They even provide a low carb meal plan.

Is there studies of people that aren’t diabetic but have taken this medicine? I’m obese and not diabetic. So what id be keen is not on the side effects these medicines have on people they were initially designed for but for those these medicine weren’t designed for and are taking it.

@EasterIssland yes, there was the Surmount-3 and Surmount-4 clinical trials which were for people that were obese but did not have diabetes.

That was for Tirzepatide which is Mounjaro by brand name. The studies were done by the manufacturer Eli Lilly.

Sorry I should have been more specific. I'm only going off what T1 diabetic consultants from different hospitals have said, to me, personally. King's, QA, John Radcliffe, Bristol, Surrey. All previously say that they felt that more long term data was required, on low carb'ing. and also now say they want more long treatment data on latest ozempic - now MJ.

It's not licensed for weight loss / weight maintenance yet though, it's only available for diabetes, so I'm hoping it will come!

Low carbing is a heavily restrictive lifestyle and is not sustainable for many people, so I'm not surprised they won't recommend it as a cure or treatment. Michael Mosley was also a quack.

I'm also on another injectable treatment for chronic migraine which has only existed for a few years. It's changed my life completely. I started during what amounts to the Phase 4 of drug trials.

If you truly want 50 year studies, you'd only just be considering taking ibuprofen about now - it was prescription only from 1969 and over the counter from 1983. Paracetamol was only sold from 1956.

@ThatCoralShark

Just because D UK had lots of low carb data etc on its website, is no surprise, is it? They are fulfilling a need, providing information for users, that the users want. Responding to user demand for info. Of course they would.

I mean how could they not? Plus there aren't that many alternatives to offer the users. It's not like there are that many other options of suggestions for T2's ti try, currently. It is the latest 'fad', 'craze', 'recommendation'.

Low carbing. I've known about it pre Mosley, back in the 70's Dr Bernstein wrote a good book.

But some argue there still isn't enough long term data on the effects.

Things change, in medicine. What may have been recommended years ago, sometimes isn't recommend now. I'm sure we can all think of many examples of this, some minor, a little bit basic - babies not sleeping with cot bumpers, cot deaths. To even more severe / catastrophic medical things that were done to people or babies, pills given that now they realise shouldn't have happened. you must know this. things do change.

Did you know that in the late 70s diabetic clinics recommended to small children to cut out protein from their diet? That was actually recommended to my mum and I didn't grow for over a year and a half before my mum suggested to the consultants that she wasn't happy with this - which was considered shocking for a apparent to even question the diabetic consultants back in the day .

Imagine that being all the rage now - telling a young child not to consume protein and thus them not growing ?

Now, Semaglutide is current. ozempic, now MJ. I'm not saying it's bad. I'm just saying some medics will still maintain that they don't have enough long term data. I can respect their view.

Heavily restrictive in what way?

The thing I notice is eating out in cheaper restaurants or cafes but other than that, I dont feel restricted.

It must be a London thing, loads of people we know taking it

Definitely not restricted to London, I know loads of women taking it, they aren't all wealthy either, or very overweight, they want to be thin though.