Son not invited to cousin's wedding but his brother is

[Aprilcherry04]

My nephew is getting married in a few months time. I was chatting to my sister earlier and she was talking about the wedding and she was telling me that the invites would be out soon. She said of course myself and my husband would be and my eldest son and partner would be evening guests but my youngest son (age 20)who has learning disabilities would not as her son and his fiancée have concerns that my DS2 would behave inappropriately. I explained to her that I would have no one to look after DS2 and she said perhaps my DS1 would look after him to allow me to attend. I would feel bad asking my elder to miss out on the evening party so wouldn't do that. I feel very upset for my DS2 and feel ostracised by my own family. I have cried solidly for 3 hours. DH has stated that we will just politely decline the invitation. My sister seemed surprised that I was hurt but my DS2 is the only one of the cousins not invited. I understand that it is up to the couple who they want to invite but I am still valid in feeling upset. If my own family cannot accept my son's limitations then how can I expect the rest of society to do so.

@Pookymalooky

I think what’s even worse having read some of the further comments on this thread is just how uninformed some people still are about some disabilities. So narrow minded, it’s truly terrifying!

*Yes.. absolutely and it truly sickens me... that is why this will be my last post. I just can't...Not only terrifying, but has reduced me to tears...*

I also can't believe the poster who was punched at 12 by someone with ASD thinks that's in any way the same as being asked to dance by a lad with DS. They're not the same condition at all! Good grief.

Sickening isn't it?

Imagine if the son was excluded for being Somali.. 'Oh well I met a Nigerian man once who was violent so..'

Not all autistic people are violent either, I for one have never hit anyone 😔

Not all autistic people are violent either, I for one have never hit anyone 😔

Absolutely. In the example I gave it would be just as ludicrous to state 'well I met a Somali man once who was violent'.There are multiple layers to why that is an offensive/ prejudiced statement.

From what you have said there is absolutely no reason why your son should not be invited to the evening do, he sounds great. I said this before and will say again, I am with your husband on this and would not go. I am upset on your behalf.

@autienotnaughty

Not all autistic people are violent either, I for one have never hit anyone 😔

Oh absolutely this too!

I am normally a people pleaser and try not to ruffle feathers if I can help it. I will definitely be telling my dsis about my hurt and anger and I am not going to end my relationship with her but I am definitely going to distance myself from her from now on. TBH at the moment I feel that I don't want to be around her and her family anyway. I have also made the decision that even though I will be in minimum contact with her I am going to keep my son away from her and her family. They think they can edit him out of their lives for one day and then all will be back to normal but it ain't gonna happen.

Well done April, that sounds like a sensible way forward. I hope you can take some comfort in the understanding and encouragement you've recieved here, I know how lonely it can sometimes feel when you're battling these things as a family in isolation, know that you're not alone and that there is a whole community you can tap into here if needed.

Good decisions, April. Your thoughts about your son being 'edited out for the day' are spot on. I doubt if it's the only crass decision they've made for 'their' day, which sounds eminently missable. Your sister and her family should be ashamed, and maybe in time they will be.

My (younger but adult) brother has very significant special needs and to be honest if he is welcome I don't want to go anyway even if I was logistically able to (for example if my brother was already being cared for by someone else). Quite simply, I don't want to know you if you are that intolerant of others with additional needs. Will they be limiting alcohol to prevent anyone having too much and their behaviour becoming inappropriate? Or is it only people who genuinely struggle with social norms that are unwelcome. Honestly things like this makes me so angry.

Do they realise that their behaviour, in many other contexts, would be unlawful? They are discriminating against their cousin on the basis of a protected characteristic. Are they banning people from bringing partners who are black? Or gay? Fuck them and their atrocious attitude.

Great response April.
I hope there is lots of people around you who love and champion your son and you.

This is horrific!

There is no way I would be attending that wedding.

@MargotEmin @ThumbWitchesAbroad
Thank you 😊

This is so upsetting. How dare your family try to exclude your poor son? My youngest sibling has downs and autism and there is absolutely no way she would ever be excluded from a family wedding. I’m glad you’re going to distance yourself from your sister in future - I don’t think I could speak to her again if it was my child being treated in this way.

@Simplelobsterhat

I think they've gone about this all wrong and of course you shouldn't exclude someone because of a disability. If they had concerns they should have talked to you about it and if there were ways of managing any potential problems, which of course there are. I'd be very hurt and probably not go.

However, I am wondering if something similar has happened before, as the concern is so specific, and someone has been upset/ scared without you realising.
I strongly don't agree with this idea that a girl should be less concerned about being pestered because someone obviously has downs syndrome. Yes she should be more understanding of why, but he's still an adult man so it doesn't make it any less potentially threatening when he doesn't take no for an answer easily, especially if it was a guest who didn't know him or the family and know you'd step in if needed. I know you said he would take no for an answer, and I'm not saying that is what happened or that it would be justification to leave him out, but I'm uncomfortable with the narrative from some posters that if a girl is uncomfortable with any kind of advances they are automatically prejudiced against disabled people.

Thank you. I've only read about 20 or 30 posts so far (don't know how many exactly as I view it on 100 posts setup, rather than 25), but I am very concerned at the minimisation of women's concerns and fears I am seeing here. It is not 'ableist' or 'prejudiced' to have VALID concerns about a man's behaviour - and he is a man, any more than it is 'transphobic' to be concerned about men in women's spaces. I am sick of the #BeKind and women shouldn't state their fears. A man is a man, DS or not, if a woman feels uncomfortable in a man's presence, be he an able-bodied person and/or NT, or be he a man with a disability, the woman should have the right to say so and not be silenced. Some of the dismissive posts I've read on here, dismissive of women's genuine discomfort, have shocked and saddened me. I myself would no problem with a man with Down Syndrome at a wedding, unless he had been known to make women uncomfortable. But it seems the OP's son does make some women uncomfortable, this is quite clear with the sister/cousin not wanting him to be there. I feel the OP is in denial or has minimised his past behaviour, because it appears to be more serious than she is letting on.

Also, telling random women I love you is quite uncomfortable for women. If the OP can teach her son to ask for permission for hugs etc, surely she can teach him not to say I love you to women.

Bottom line is a person with DS shouldn't be infantilised and written off as not being able to learn, clearly OP's son can learn, and he has clearly made women feel uncomfortable in the past, and see seems in denial of how her son's behaviour affects other women. I suspect, by the minimising tone of the OP's posts the sister has tried to talk to OP about his behaviour before but she waves it away and doesn't listen. Bottom line is if a woman feels uncomfortable in ANY man's presence, she should be respected enough to be allowed to say it, and not invalidated, minimised, shot down or accused of being a bigot. A woman should never be made to feel bad for being uncomfortable.

@RoastedFerret The OP also says this though Tbh he does get a bit excited on occasions but my DH is very strict with him. He has DS and is ver lovable but we do need to set strict boundaries with him. I don't think she has explained how this excitement manifests itself and why her husband has to be very strict with him if he does in fact just calmly ask women to dance and walk away when told no like people are suggesting?
Like Simplelobsterhat said disabilities or not a grown man who is likely bigger than and stronger than the women being 'excitable' to the point where someone has to be 'very strict' and impose 'strict boundaries' could be intimidating to someone who doesn't know him and doesn't finds excitable advances intimidating rather than lovable.

Yes it does sound like there is significant behavioural issues, especially towards women, when she uses the word 'pester' and says he needs 'strict boundaries', and I think the OP isn't being fully honest with herself about her son's impact on others mainly women.

I pity the person who can't distinguish between a predatory man and a loving person with Downs Syndrome who tells a stranger he loves them. What a sheltered, frightening life you must lead.

It's all very well and good saying we shouldn't infantalise people with Downs but the reality is that my brother's disability is so profound he functions in some domains as a pre-schooler. When there have been lapses in his judgement (despite mine and my parents best efforts) most right thinking people are gracious and understanding because they can tell there is zero, literally zero, malice in it. It takes a village and all that..

@MargotEmin

I pity the person who can't distinguish between a predatory man and a loving person with Downs Syndrome who tells a stranger he loves them. What a sheltered, frightening life you must lead.

It's all very well and good saying we shouldn't infantalise people with Downs but the reality is that my brother's disability is so profound he functions in some domains as a pre-schooler. When there have been lapses in his judgement (despite mine and my parents best efforts) most right thinking people are gracious and understanding because they can tell there is zero, literally zero, malice in it. It takes a village and all that..

@MargotEmin I pity the people who lack the compassion and understanding to know that to women, a man is a man....is a man. Regardless of DS or not. Some males with Down Syndrome can be quite forceful, I've seen it myself. And you have no idea the experience each woman has, or her triggers, what she has gone through, or why she might fear a man - any man. Consider yourself lucky if you've led a sheltered life and haven't experienced trauma from a man. So give your head a wobble and have some compassion.

@Midge75 Some people with DS just don't quite have the same boundaries as people without DS. Sometimes they are very affectionate and like to show it - and I don't mean in a sexual way. . ....
There is a WORLD of difference between a person with DS being enthusiastic about dancing with girls at a party and some creepy guy pressuring girls with sexual advances. You seem to be mixing it all up together and it just screams to me that you have no experience at all with people with DS.

You don't understand. It's not about the intention of the person with DS, it's about how the WOMAN FEELS. If a woman feels uncomfortable, then she feels uncomfortable. And that should be respected. Him having DS is irrelevant to how the woman feels, and she can't help how she feels. If she feels uncomfortable and threatened, then she feels uncomfortable and threatened. Full stop. Nothing can change that. You seem to think a woman's discomfort shouldn't exist if he has DS. A woman who feels threatened and uncomfortable doesn't care if he has DS or not, her feelings that she can't control don't hinge on that.

Fact is, if a man - any man - make makes a woman feel uncomfortable, she should be met with compassion, not condemnation and told it's her fault and she's been mean.

@Migrainesbythedozen which is why in the case of someone with a disability it is important they have support. Which in this instance this man has his parents.

I thought I had explained in earlier posts?? Have you ever been somewhere and been asked to dance? Offered a drink? And you've accepted so the person thinks that you are interested and you're not so they hang about for a whole until you make it clear you're not. Mixed messages is what I'm talking about. My son is not a predatory male in fact he doesn't look like a adult man. He's barely 5ft and looks about 13. So girls feel sorry for him and dance and hug and kiss round him. Obviously as he is 20 he would love a girlfriend so when they give him attention he thinks they really like him so if we gave him the opportunity he would like to keep hanging out and sitting beside them etc. He's not going to attack someone. There's a difference. I've been pestered at weddings by drunks insisting I dance with them and I've managed to handle it in an adult manner ( I didn't feel threatened - just thought they were assholes). Everybody bangs on about how we should be inclusive these days but the truth is imo that a lot of it is just for show. Truthfully people would probably still brush disability and imperfection under the carpet.

Consider yourself lucky if you've led a sheltered life and haven't experienced trauma from a man

I have, including rape. That's part of the reason I know there is world of difference, clear blue ocean, between sexual violence and the behaviours described here.

I totally agree that a woman has a right to feel and experience any man as intimidating, i believe in single sex spaces for example, but that doesn't mean we get to ban men from public spaces (as much as I would like to at times!)

@Migrainesbythedozen
You seem to think a woman's discomfort shouldn't exist if he has DS.

Sorry - I'm not sure where you got that from. I wasn't trying to minimise anybody's feelings. I completely understand that how a woman feels is very important and she should be allowed to express it and protest against whatever behaviour has made her feel that way.

Thing is, we have no evidence of how the OP's son has behaved in the past. Positive or negative. However, some posters were drawing parallels between an affectionate person with DS and NT, creepy, sexual predator-type men. So I was just pointing out there is a world of difference between these.
Hopefully, as the OP's son has DS, most people would be able to understand that there was no intended threat or gross display of power over women or anything. That doesn't mean that all women would feel comfortable being approached by him - especially if there is some traumatic history with men. But, if the OP is to be believed, he would accept the word 'no' and move on - unlike a more predatory man - and the OP and husband would be there to keep a close eye on him, so the most likely scenario would be that he would dance the night away with the other wedding guests, with no issues at all.

I really never condemned any woman for feeling uncomfortable and don't think I showed a lack of compassion. Sorry if it came across that way.

@Migrainebythedozen

I hear what you're saying, but women's rights don't trump the rights of people with disabilities either.

You can't just lock people away from life because they're more childlike in an adult body, and because people may not be used to that.

Yes, supervision is needed, a translator if you like, to ease communication and understanding.