When to 'Up' meals?

[MrsMagooo]

Hello ladies,

I should know what I'm doing as I have a DD who's 2.6 but my brain has turned to mush lol!!

I started weaning my DS just under 2 weeks ago at just over 21 weeks, I realise this is under the 'guideline' age of 6 months but IMO he honestly did seem ready & he is loving his food.

At the moment he has breakfast (pear or apple mixed in with baby breakfast) & then lunch (so far have tried him on carrot, sweet potato, brocolli carrot & potato, apple & pear. (I make all the purees myself)

Anyway I digress - my question is when would it be ok to 'up' to 3 meals a day??

DS is enjoying his food, he eats very well & still has bottles (he also still wakes in the night to be fed hence we wondering when I can increase to 3 meals) but as I have started weaning before the guidelines I'm unsure as to when it would be ok to increase his meals.

Sorry for the waffle - any advice welcome

but it doesn't matter how people say it, does it Becky77, you jump in there and take offence. What am I supposed to empathise with? I'm sorry I don't get that bit. My comment about feel free to bite my head off was in response to what seems to have been the reaction in general on this thread...i.e to MrsJamin's perfectly reasonable advice...it wasn't directed at you as such. I'm sorry if you feel offended...but again..I am failing to understand where all the anguish and offence taking is coming from. Why do you see any talk of BLW as a criticism? Nobody even said you should BLW on this thread...just that you might like to talk to other spoon feeders about spoon feeding issues as they are the ones with experience of doing it.
You don't say here what the problems are with stage 2 purees but if she is refusing to eat them why DON'T you try finger foods for a while? If she's not eating the purees anyway, what is the difference? Can't you up her milk feeds if she is hungry? The reason I BLW is that at about 7 and a half months DS started getting very funny about being spoon fed so I just gave him finger foods instead. He'd been on 3 meals of puree a day. He didn't seem frustrated, in fact he seemed to far prefer being allowed to control the food himself and just took more milk for a while. I was actually really quite scathing about BLW but I didn't see the point of continuing with purees when it was making him and me miserable.
neenztwinz I'm sorry but I am misunderstnading the cows milk thing....I understood that they don't have cows milk as a main drink until they are a year old, so they ARE still getting their nutrition from the milk, not the food, as they are having either breast milk or formula, both of which have the nutrients they need.

There is evidence that not learning how to control appetite from an early age (ie feeding to a schedule v feeding on demand) may be a factor in childhood obesity and BLW is just away of continuing demand feeding really. So in that way yes it is healthier.

Babies and toddlers do not starve themselves, they eat when they are hungry and eat enough for their own needs. So if a 7 month old BLW baby only eats 1 carrot and a piece of toast that is all he needs. Another 7 month old BLW baby might eat porridge, a sandwich, a yoghurt, some carrot sticks, and some pasta in a day. That is because that is what they need. As we all know babies are different and all people whether baby, toddler, child or adult have different appetites and will feel full after different amounts.

I could see nappyaddict how it could be a small factor but then I thought most obesity was caused by people taking in too many calories and then not getting enough exercise...its really very simple isnt it.

and I honestly think that your socioeconomic situation would be more of a factor again than whether you give your baby pureed food or do blw and surely you can do purees 'well' and blw quite badly or vice versa - it depends on the parenting doesnt it...

this whole blw v purees is such a nonstarter and really quite tedious on both sides.

I find pure blw immensely non practical for me but dont have any objections to it beyond that for anyone else indeed the theory is probably very sound - and yes it would be lovely if my baby had ages to explore foods at every meal but frankly i need to get out of the house on the school run/to the hospital etc...imo other threads exploring the problems between nurseries and blw also show that it helps to be a sahm to be blw as well...

I never said BLW was more "natural" I never said it was better, just that I agreed that you need to be careful with not giving too much food in case of constipation and that I thought MrsJamin wasn't rude. YOU are the one who seems to have taken all this as some terrible insult..I am not really sure why. I BLW because DS started refusing spoons. As it happens I've found much easier for me and more fun for him. You spoon feed, good for you. What's the problem? Why do you have to storm in and have a go and call us a miltia/claim we force you into a ghetto? Is that not an over reaction?
By the way, I always found (while we were doing purees) that baby rice GAVE ds constipation. Only thing I found that seemed to help was giving him water.

macaco - I personally do, do I? Have you been cyber stalking me? AS for the stuff about my daughter... You've got completely the wrong end of the stick... It was a reference to an earlier thread I started. She eats everything just fine but was struggling with lumpy mush... I asked about it on here and was told to stop giving her mush at all. Ridiculous. That may have worked for your DS but seeing as my daughter loves her mealtimes as they are to withdraw them would be cruel.

nappyaddict - spoonfeeders don't feed on a schedule by definition. I bring my daughters food out when she is hungry and I stop offering it to her when she is full, which is very clear. What is not "feeding on demand" about that?

macaco - Lordy you do seem to be rather riled. My post about research was not addressed to you. As you'll see all my posts that are are marked clearly. Shall we talk again about "oversensitive"?

Becky77 you seem to take offence at quite innocuous things on this thread. Although I unreservedly apologise for inviting you to "bite my head off in an oversensitive way" as that seems to have really upset you and I'm truly sorry, it was not my intention. It wasn't meant quite how you seem to have taken that.
Sorry that my suggestion re lumpy mush isn't helpful, again, why not ask on the puree lovers thread...I expect they would have better ideas than me and perhaps have even been thru the same thing? That's all that was meant originally by MrsJamin that seems to have kicked all this off.

Becky77 could your DD be teething?

some puree fed babies will keep eating until the bowl is empty and mummy stops offering anymore despite maybe being full half way through the bowl. I don't find I needed any more time to do BLW. I ate my breakfast, at the same time he ate his. In fact it took less time cos I didn't have to feed myself breakfast and then him.

and i think this whole thing has got out of hand because the majority of 'puree feeders' on here have waited til 26 weeks, are still bfeeding and have just made a nice lentil casserole with quinoa - ie they are following guidelines and making a bit effort and doing what they think is best - they are not just opening a jar at 17 weeks and shoving it into their babies who cant sit up.

Thats why they get defensive when blws infer that they are damaging their babies in some way through the medium of spoons.

GKS HOW has this thread implied they are damaging their babies by spoon feeding? I certainly haven't..goodness I spoon fed mine at first and probably would have continued had he not started refusing to entertain the idea.
The OP asked when to up meals and she was advised to go carefully in case of constipation and it was pointed out there was a whole thread about puree weaners in case she wanted to ask their advise too. This seems to have angered some puree weaners and I'm afraid to say I fail to see why. Maybe people are rude about purees on MN but I don't see that on this thread...just puree weaners ranting about a bLW militia.

Becky77 I'm not riled.

precisely giantkatestacks.

macaco - she definitely is. Do you think that would have an effect?

But also can you not see how telling people to ask the "puree lovers thread" (as opposed to being able to happily start your own thread) is ghettoising spoon feeders. Our questions are just as valid and we are probably as many, it is just that the BLWers on here are more vocal and keep jumping on threads about spoon feeding which is why the puree lovers thread was started in the first place.... So.... blah blah blah... to redirect everyone to that thread just perpetuates the inequality.

Spoonfeeders of the world unite and be proud!

Becky77 I think the crux of the problem is a misunderstanding. I think all MrsJamin meant was that she wasn't a puree weaner and did the OP know there was a big thread all about puree weaning if she wanted to ask their advice too. You are right that some BLWers ARE rude about spoon feeding and that isn't on
I have always found DS to get veeeery funny about milk when teething although he'd tolerate solids better. Is she FF or BF? DS was fully FF by 2 months and I think when teething the teats irritated the gums where he was teething in a way that spoon feeding/finger foods didn't. So perhaps that's why she's taking less milk/doesn't like the lumps? Only an idea.

macaco - I think we're now in agreement

And yes she is on bottles now. I had forgotten how teething effects them sucking... That could well have a lot to do with it

I think it reminds me of the Life of Brian - you know the difference between the Peoples Front of Judea and the Judean Peoples Front.

The main message should be that once you get to 26 weeks you can feed them whichever way you like as long as its homemade and healthy and they continue to have the apprropriate amount of milk...

Dear me, am to see the to-do that can erupt in the short time you take your lo to the park!

My tuppence is that I think it's a shame that some puree feeders feel they "have" to have their own thread for "fear" of militia-like BLWers! (though I think the thread is a good idea as it seems to have been helpful to a lot of people)

I haven't seen any BLWers that seem militia-like at all! Some may say that BLW is better in their opinion and state why, but what's wrong with that? Isn't that part of what MN is for? I don't think puree feeders should feel threatened by that.

I mean, if I asked a question about sleep, and I was using the Baby Whisperer, why would I be offended if some people recommended the No Cry Sleep solution?? I don't think I'd have the right to complain about people recommending the methods that they use on a public forum, when thopse people are trying to be helpful? I mean, isn't that what MN is for, partly?

I agree but if it is obvious in your post that you are happily puree feeding (but that you have come across an issue) why suggest BLW? This is what often happens... I mean it happens every time. It would be like someone posting in the sleep section about no cry sleep solution method and people constantly recommending they let their child cry it out. No? The two are mutually exclusive by definition. And I dont think it's about people having the "right to complain" about a one off suggestion. It is about a constant barrage. You only have to read the Puree Lovers thread to see how embattled people feel. We're not just all suddenly making up. I don't understand why those who are so bemused by all this can't understand how it would feel if the shoe were on the other foot.

I don't know that there is anything wrong with suggesting BLW as a solution to spoon feeding problems-it was the solution to my spoon feeding problems- but I can see that it would depend on what the problem was. I also accept that some BLWers can be a little "evangelical" and it should be remembered that it's not the only way to wean. I do think however that a lot of these suggestions are made as another idea to think about, (as someone said the general population doesn't know a lot about BLW) and are often left at that. I DO think it's unacceptable to talk about "shovelling mush" and the like as this really is derogatory...and I have seen that on MN. But I think also some of the responses on some threads by puree weaners have been a bit OTT...and I'm not talking about anyone directly here.
Becky77 have you tried a sippy cup for milk? It goes all over the place at first but sometimes it's easier on the gums than sucking a teat. Maybe while she's teething her solids could be more calcium rich to make up for milk she's not taking? Other than that I haven't got any ideas except wait for the teeth to emerge!

I know what you mean about sleep and cry it out, since it's such an emotive topic that always provokes a huge argument! I probably would be annoyed Becky, but I do think it should still happen as it opens up "debate" (ahem) which is what MN is all about, and you learn a lot when you read about other people who do things differently from you.

I don't think there's anything wrong with suggesting BLW to someone who's puree feeding, after all, maybe they haven't heard of it and might be interested.

As for "constant barrage", well the shoe was on the other foot. I have been reading threads on this topic for about 4 months, before I started weaning, and then I was sure I was going to puree wean, which I actually did for a while, and I never felt embattled or pissed off by BLWers. I got the impression that BLW was becoming more popular and that people were recommending it more and more, but it was something I thought was certainly not for me. Well, I'm doing it now, and I learnt a lot from what I read about BLW on threads started by puree weaners. I wouldn't have read "BLW threads" at that time, so I'm glad there was a mix of advice on a lot of threads. I think it would be a shame if everyone "kept to their own" all the time, or whatever..

I agree, which is why I was against spoon feeders being directed towards the Puree Lovers thread, as if that one thread is enough for us. Perhaps that wasnt the intention but given the context that is how it comes across. We are all doing our best. Neither is right and neither is wrong. It just happens that in here BLWing is the majority rule (among some in a rather evangelical fashion) and as a result spoon feedering tends to be talked down. It'd be nice if people were a little more open to "the other way"

Im sorry Becky but you appear to be ignoring the fact that Mrs Jamin's original reply (where this all began) not only directed the OP to the puree thread but also said she was bumping her post for any other puree feeders. Not the work of someone trying to marginalise.

I do think BLWing is shouted from the roof tops on MN but this is the opposite of RL so its small wonder that those who do it and love it, enjoy having a place to share it with other like-minded parents (as well as share with other parents who may not know about it).

Its a shame MrsMagoo has disappeared I hope she hasn't been put off MN for life

Incase it's skipped anyones attention I'm not talking in specifics about the OP.

But in your second paragraph Darkmere you highlight the exact issue. BLWers see MN as their "place to share with other like minded parents" which in itself reveals a defensive and terratorial mentality from which you get derrogatory chat about spoon feeding and constant barraging and i'll say it again ghettoising.

I too hope MrsMagoo hasnt been put off MN for life but I have to say every Mum I know in RL has already been put off MN by exactly the sort of attitude I'm talking about.

Macaco, formula IS cow's milk. What I am saying is I can't see how a FFed baby is better off on milk than food, even if it does have some added vitamins and iron.

'There is evidence that not learning how to control appetite from an early age (ie feeding to a schedule v feeding on demand) may be a factor in childhood obesity and BLW is just away of continuing demand feeding really. So in that way yes it is healthier.' Where is the evidence for this? Does the evidence show that it MAY be a factor in obesity? The word 'may' means nothing has been proven! Gill Rapley's book is full of 'maybes', probablys' and 'could bes'. That's because none of it is proven. And Rapley says babies don't understand that hunger and food are linked so a baby will not eat a carrot if he is hungry. He will just eat what he can pick up and what he can be bothered to put in his mouth, which will not always provide all the nutrients he needs. So in that way BLW is NOT healthier.

Macaco, yes this thread was pretty innocuous and the reason it kicked off here and not somewhere else is cos I just got to the end of my tether at that particular time on that day, with all the 'BLW is best why are you spoonfeeding at all' when I just don't believe it is true. I am sure you have never been rude abou spoon feeders but some people are and these weaning boards are like 'blw only...'. When I first started weaning I was scared to post questions on here about purees cos I knew what the reaction would be, which is why I started the puree thread. I think a lot of spoon feeders have been bottling up anger toward the 'blw militia' and it is coming out a bit now.

Pispiri, your analogy about sleep is a good one - but if I was asking a question about CC I would be mighty peed off if someone went on about NCSS, because by using CC I am OK about crying! Just like if someone uses purees they are saying I don;t want to just let my baby feed himself!

MarsMagooo is on the puree lovers thread! She went there cos she felt put down by MrsJamin who made her feel like she had done the wrong thing asking about purees on the weaining board where MrsJamin 'wagers the majority of posters do BLW'. I rest my case.

"I can't see how a FFed baby is better off on milk than food, even if it does have some added vitamins and iron."

neenztwinz I am at this comment. It sounds like you're saying that formula is so crap that a formula fed baby needs solids to "make up for it". I think you're offending parents who ff with this comment (it certainly offends me).

Formula provides all the nutrition a baby needs, and even though you might not be a big fan of formula, you could not deny that it contains a more complete form of nutrition (fats, protein, vits, minerals, etc), and is much easier to digest than say a vegetable or fruit puree.

I thought you agreed that, whether you do purees or BLW, for the first while solids are meant just to complement a baby's diet rather than replace milk. So why would a ff baby be "better off" on solids than the milk that's been nourishing her since she was born????

Pispiri, sorry I offended you, I know this is a very sensitive topic and I have many MN friends who FF and get very upset at such comments. I am not saying FF is crap, I am saying that FF is made from cow's milk which is designed for calves not humans, it is a close second to BM but I cannot see how cow's milk can be better nutrition for a baby than food (after six months).

No I don't necessarily accept that food just complements milk after 6mth. Where is the proof? A baby can survive just fine on milk or food, or a combination of both.

The thing about Gill Rapley's book is it is based on a study she did for her Masters, IIRC only 44 babies were involved. The study has not been repeated, not been peer-reviewed, not been published (apart from in her book)and only happened a few years ago so the long-term effects on the babies (ie if it helped with obesity/picky eating etc) is still unknown. That is why her book is full of maybes and probablys. Nothing is proven.

Going back to the original point about BLWers always jumping on puree threads to say how great BLW is, when I started the puree thread, lulumama posted this

'if your babies cannot pick up the food, get it to their mouth and chew it, then they are possibly not ready for weaning anyway, and certainly not BLW...

horses for courses, but the point of BLW is it starts when the baby is physically ready to feed, be it 22 weeks, 26 weeks, 28 weeks or 30 weeks etc...'

She is saying that even after 26 weeks it is wrong to spoon-feed a baby because they should only be eating what they can pick up and put in their own mouths. Which I think is nonsense. And I think it shows that a thread about purees is immediately pounced on by a BLWer who then says how much better BLW is for the baby.