When to 'Up' meals?

[MrsMagooo]

Hello ladies,

I should know what I'm doing as I have a DD who's 2.6 but my brain has turned to mush lol!!

I started weaning my DS just under 2 weeks ago at just over 21 weeks, I realise this is under the 'guideline' age of 6 months but IMO he honestly did seem ready & he is loving his food.

At the moment he has breakfast (pear or apple mixed in with baby breakfast) & then lunch (so far have tried him on carrot, sweet potato, brocolli carrot & potato, apple & pear. (I make all the purees myself)

Anyway I digress - my question is when would it be ok to 'up' to 3 meals a day??

DS is enjoying his food, he eats very well & still has bottles (he also still wakes in the night to be fed hence we wondering when I can increase to 3 meals) but as I have started weaning before the guidelines I'm unsure as to when it would be ok to increase his meals.

Sorry for the waffle - any advice welcome

I think I agree with Neenz- the way I understand what she says is- formula milk (or breast milk for that matter) is, arguably, NOT enough / adequate nutrition past 6-7 months, i.e. the time that solids are firmly established. I don't think Neenz was talking about the time when breastmilk / formula is supposed to the the main (only) nutrition, i.e. until solids are established. She was talking about well into the 1st year, e.g. at 9 months, 10 months etc. And I certainly agree about the Gill Rapley book- interesting as it is, there simply is not enough (or any, actually) peer reviewed, tested & re-tested research to back up what she says.

In terms of volume milk is more calorific than food. That is why for the first 12 months milk is more nutritious.

it is not nonesense, IMO , neenz

my point was that a baby who was not outwardly physically developed to pick up and chew food was possibly not ready for weaning and certainly not BLW.

you cannot see inside your babies gut to see if it is mature enough to digest food, so you have to look to their outward skills...

wean your baby when you want, when you feel ready, but IMO it is good to look for signs that they can actually deal with food other than milk

babies develop at different rates, so i try to say that waening should begin aroudn 26 weeks, whihc oculd mean 23 or 29 weeks.

i did not even mention spoon feeding as being wrong or unecessary or dangerous

that is what you are reading into it.

if you wish to spoon feed from 20 weeks, 25 weeks, 26 weeks 29 weeks, that is fine.. i have never dissed spoonfeeding

i have pointed out , simply, regardless of whetehr you wean by spoon or BLW or use spoons and finger food, that you should look for the signs of physical readiness

i jumped on no-one, i was rude to no-one , i said nothing about spoon feeeding at all

i have never said BLW is better for a baby, on any thread AFAIK

please don;t read divisiveness into my posts that is just not there, i don;t appreciate it at all

I don;t thikn I will bother commenting on weaning threads again if my posts are going to be pikced on , for nastiness that is simply not there

find me one post where i have said anything bad about spoonfeeding or that BLW is superior

if i have done i apologise, but i try to be so careful to word my posts carefully and tactfully

I was trying to point out that you need to look for the correct signs of readiness to wean. regardless of spoon feeding or BLW

that is all

no jumping on, no rudeness, no nastiness

so am that i have been picked on

To the OP I would suggest looking at Annabel Carmel's timetables for food, and just using your instinct. Don't neccessarily give him 3 meals a day, but perhaps sit him up at the table when you and DD are eating, see what he wants to do.
I would personally keep to small tastes of food at this stage, or stop altogether and wait til 26 weeks. But that is your choice.
I would love to do BLW but fear it would make my dog fatter than he already is

@ Lulumama - I'm a bit confused... You didnt post earlier in this thread so how have you been picked on?

neenz has quoted something i said on a different thread, quite a few weeks ago.

so am going to leave the weaning threads, if i am going to be held up as an exmaple of talking nonesense.

Neenztwinz posted

"Going back to the original point about BLWers always jumping on puree threads to say how great BLW is, when I started the puree thread, lulumama posted this

'if your babies cannot pick up the food, get it to their mouth and chew it, then they are possibly not ready for weaning anyway, and certainly not BLW...

horses for courses, but the point of BLW is it starts when the baby is physically ready to feed, be it 22 weeks, 26 weeks, 28 weeks or 30 weeks etc...'

She is saying that even after 26 weeks it is wrong to spoon-feed a baby because they should only be eating what they can pick up and put in their own mouths. Which I think is nonsense. And I think it shows that a thread about purees is immediately pounced on by a BLWer who then says how much better BLW is for the baby."

Sorry xp'd

Oh right... Missed that. Well I dont think you should leave because of it. I think it's clear you arent trying to offend or upset anyone

thanks becky, that is kind of oyu, i think i will steer clear of weaning threads, as my well meant advice is being taken the wrooooong way!

C'mon lulumama, you are tougher than this. I never said you were rude or nasty, you are fab, but you DID come on a puree thread and talk about BLW. I was just making the point that when you did that it felt like you were saying purees are wrong cos if the baby is ready to eat a food then it will be able to pick it up and put it in its own mouth ie blw.

There is no proof for that anyway. It is a sensible idea, that babies develop the ability to pick up and eat food at the same rate as their systems develop, but it is not proven. That is why we puree - to make food easier to swallow and digest.

You're not really going to leave the weaning board.

come on, let's all make up & be friends again

"peer reviewed, tested & re-tested research " Is there any for Annabel Karmel's puree methods? Or any of the other weaning gurus?
Just interested. I am sitting on the fence as I do both purees and BLW

ooh libra you'll be told off for that, you have to say finger foods and purees not purees and blw

well actually I just put the puree on a rice cake and give it to DS so I am not sure what that is called.....

it is not about being tough.. it is about having things ascribed to me I HAVE NOT SAID.

am not going to fall out with anyone, but if i cannot say that there are physical signs of readiness for weaning without being held up as an example of someone who hates spoonfeeding then there is no point me saying it !!

i have said nothing bad ever about spoon feeding.

so, you know...... am entitled to be a bit petulant

as you were , ladies...

it is not about being tough.. it is about having things ascribed to me I HAVE NOT SAID.

am not going to fall out with anyone, but if i cannot say that there are physical signs of readiness for weaning without being held up as an example of someone who hates spoonfeeding then there is no point me saying it !!

i have said nothing bad ever about spoon feeding.

so, you know...... am entitled to be a bit petulant

as you were , ladies...

dear lord, this thread is like a horror film when you think the baddies' dead and then they jump up at you! Every time I look at it another row's erupted. I am going to retire from the weaning boards I think for the time being because it seems impossible to even whisper the letters BLW without someone taking it as a criticism/personal insult.

neenztwinz you may not like any mention of blw but you might want to be a bit careful about what you say about formula as that can be a very sensitive topic. I have to disagree with you as it is a fact that by volume milk (be it formula or BM) has more calories than solids and is easier to digest than solids, be they purees or not. You seem to be saying they don't need milk once solids are established (what, about 8 months old?) Sorry, if I've misunderstood you there, I'm very tired this afternoon.
Correct me if I am wrong but they are NOT able to ingest enough solids to get the nutrition they need without milk, no matter How you feed them?

Hi everyone again,

Well, formula & breastmilk may very well have more calories if you count by volume... but, the way I see it, they don't include all the useful nutrients that a baby can (gradually) get from fruit, veg, protein, carbs etc. Which is why I believe that a more varied diet than just milk is needed / useful. And yes of course milk remains important, but I really don't see how milk can be the ONLY or MAIN source of nutrition for the whole first year. I suppose this can work for many people who've actually done it, and their kids are perfectly healthy, but again, since this is a new way of going about weaning, I'd love to read some research.

And Libra, no of course Annabel Karmel or Gina Ford don't include resarch on infant feeding... but they are assuming that this research has been done. I.e. the government guidelines (I suppose based on years of experience and/or research) suggest weaning babies onto solid foods from 6 months- solids meaning a wide variety, with milk becoming gradually less important as the first year progresses. When someone proposes an interesting but new way of infant feeding, surely they need to back up their ideas, as much as they can, with research?

Mmmm, I think I sort of see where neenz is coming from. I'm sure the blw have the best intentions and offer some good advice but many of the posts do come across as a bit smug/superior. They seem to have taken this Rapley women's book as the gospel and are quite evangelical when talking about it. I haven't read it so can't comment but is her research better than say the governments?

I'm doing my own thing by the way. Some spoon feeding, some finger food, some throw around the kitchen food. I mean we eat mush as adults don't we? I've had porridge and ice cream today, both with a spoon.

You are assuming that gov't guidelines are based on research?? Really? And the gov't guidelines are very clear you can offer finger food from 6 months.

Giving it a name doesn't make it new, lots of parents have admitted it's how they fed their second or third child years ago.

There is lots of research done on infant feeding. Just go to pub med here's two to start off with
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11301932?ordinalpos=20&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_Results Panel.Pubmed_DefaultReportPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12224660?ordinalpos=1&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsP anel.Pubmed_DiscoveryPanel.PubmedDiscoveryRA&linkpos=2&log$=relatedreviews&logdbfrom=pubmed

But lulumama, you say the baby is only ready for weaning when the baby can feed itself - is that not the same as saying there is no need to spoonfeed ie it is wrong to spoonfeed? The experts say wean at 26 weeks, you say wean when the baby can sit up and feed itself, which might not be till 28 or 30 weeks. I don't agree. My babies could not feed themselves but I felt they were more than ready to wean at 22 weeks when they were BFing every hour. That was a physical sign that they needed to wean, and when I introduced solids they stopped cluster feeding.

Libra, 99% of weaning advice says to wean at 26 weeks with purees at first and then offer finger food as the baby becomes able. BLW says a baby should only feed itself and if it does it will 'probably' be healthier, less picky, not obese, able to control its own appetite etc. AK et al are not claiming any of these things, they just offer ways to make food for your baby, it is not a whole theory therefore not sure what exactly could be tested and peer-reviewed.

Macaco, I know FF is a sensitve topic, but what I have said is true... formula is cow's milk and is designed for calves so I really don't understand how it can be perfect nutrition for a baby over 6mths but food cannot be. I am not saying FF is not good nutrition, I am just asking why is it better than food?

This thing about milk having more calories than food is another thing always trotted out on MN, but again it depends what food! 8oz whole cow's milk has 147 calswww.calorieking.com/foods/calories-in-milk-cow-whole-full-fat-3-25-fat_f-Y2lkPTM1NjkxJmJpZD0xJmZpZD0 2ODY1MSZlaWQ9MzY0NDI1NTI0JnBvcz02JnBhcj0ma2V5PW1pbGs.html. 3oz chicken breast and a half of a small sweet potato has 167 cals www.calorieking.com/foods/calories-in-chicken-breast-meat-only-roasted_f-Y2lkPTMwNzk5JmJpZD0xJmZpZD0 2ODMxMiZlaWQ9MzY0NDI2NzE0JnBvcz0xJnBhcj0ma2V5PWNoaWNrZW4.html www.calorieking.com/foods/calories-in-vegetables-fresh-sweet-potato-baked-in-skin-no-salt-added-edib le-portion_f-Y2lkPTE0Nzc1JmJpZD0xJmZpZD03MTEzMyZlaWQ9MzY0NDI2NDc3JnBvcz0xJnBhcj0ma2V5PXN3ZWV0IHBvdGF 0bw.html

So how is milk more calorific? But anyway no one is saying that you drop milk feeds if you spoon-feed. You just let the baby BF whenever they want. So they do get nutrition from milk no matter how you feed them.

Libra (again - hi!), re. your last post, yes the govt recommends finger foods from six months, but that is alongside purees. The blw camp say a baby should eat ONLY finger foods ie only what the baby can put in its own mouth. That is what I think is wrong and has not been backed up by the necessary research.

Where is the research into purees?

There are more twists and turns in this thread than an Eastenders family tree!
I think the talk of ghettoization is questionable as the spoon-feeders weren't banished to their own thread, that was your choice to start that Neenz, and there's nothing wrong with that. A thread for spoon-feeders is simply a sociable way of sharing tips etc. When I wanted advice on buggies I went to the pram ladies and when I've got a nappy question, I'd ask on the nappy thread, so why is it rude to suggest the puree lovers thread to someone with a puree related question?
I think that BLWers can seem evangelical sometimes, because it's not well-known in general (outside of Mumsnet!) and because we find it to be totally awesome we want to make sure everyone has heard of it!

AK and GF etc is based on the fact babies need purees first which is a theory it may not be thought up by them but it's one that nets them a lot of cash. Where is the scientific research that babies need purees after 6 months?

Apparently there is research ongoing (but not yet published) about BLW, which as far as I can see is more than there is about puree after 6 months (admittedly only using google so if someone can point me to some I would be interested to read it) also did you look at the links I posted?