What is going on with (some) kids?!

[Purpleturtle45]

I have been a primary school teacher for 20 years and I just cannot believe the decline in behaviour and attainment In that time!

Yesterday I witnessed a 6 year old kick, spit at, punch and threaten to kill the DHT and ultimately trash the room and the staff are powerless to stop it as they aren't allowed to touch a child. This is a daily occurrence.

So many children are disrespectful and will argue back to your face now and a lot of the parents are just accepting of this! I honestly fear for the world if this is what the kids are like!

Every teacher I know is looking to leave, they are being driven to breaking point every day! It's all so worrying.

You know that other parents of kids with autism also work tirelessly but still have a child whose nervous system reacts by lashing out? What a shaming statement you've made there.

I managed to fully potty train my ASD DD before age 2 but I'm fully aware that autism shows up in many many forms and that's not possible for a lot of parents, rather than using my child as an example to say that there's no excuse for non potty trained autistic kids.

I was going to make this same point. Studies show that parents spend far more quality time with their children than previous generations. But the free time around that has changed significantly. Children spend far more time at home on screens instead of playing with their peers.

It makes it difficult as a parent trying to swim against the tide. We went to the park last Saturday, the weather was lovely and it was dead. You can stop your child having devices and get them outside but it doesn't mean there will be anyone for them to play with.

Discipline begins at home. Too much ‘gentle parenting’. Lack of consequences. Video games. Something in the food. Something in the water. Who knows. The decline really took hold when punishments were stopped in the schools.

Do you feel better saying that ,like you've solved it with a sole sentence ! . I've got 8 ,3 adults ,all full time working one a manager one in forces one in logistics,never had any trouble from them ,never had police to the door . Ive got a younger ones 4 extremely well behaved although 15 Yr old has had his moments through high school . I've got a 8 yr old who acts exactly like the child OP describes ,shes DX ASD and ADHD . She has horrendous behaviour sometimes. Am I a shit parent ? You haven't a clue .
I do believe technology and screens do have a part to play in behaviours but unless you've dreaded waking up the next day cos you know you have a child you cannot control and do not know whay to do next ,cos you've tried everything ,respectfully shut the fuck up .TBF you're woefully ignorant .Lucky you !

Saw a similar thing at argos. 2 children maybe 6 and 8 years old jumping on the display furniture, beds, sofas, tables, mum was pushing her trolley and said NOTHING to them. Nor did the shop assistants, they let them trash the display furniture. No one cares, others had to move on quickly to not be barged into. Too many parents these days are lethargic and there is no authority let alone awareness of social etiquette. My neighbour's boy is allowed to hit his mum when he is bored, he's 9, just punches her, no SEN or anything. She allows it because of his mental health. She explains that he has reason to punch her when he is bored and he is only communicating a need to be entertained. No wonder children don't learn to control their impulses.

@HedgerowD “Studies show that parents spend far more quality time with their children than previous generations”

I know many do but plenty don’t. More parents are barely talking to their children and don’t teach them anything before they start school.

Covid infections can alter brain biology which can affect behaviour and many children will have had multiple infections. Despite this, covid is often not even considered in these types of threads.

Research shows children who contracted covid had significantly higher clinical rates of oppositional defiant problems, affective disorders, and anxiety compared to their uninfected peers. When a child’s working memory and executive functions are compromised, they become frustrated easily, leading to a much lower threshold for aggressive outbursts.

It can cause prolonged brain inflammation, microvascular changes, and alterations to gray matter structure. In developing minds, these structural disruptions directly sabotage impulse control.

Going to get lambasted on here for saying this, but another thing that has changed a lot in the past 20-30 years is both parents having to work full time to make ends meets or single mothers being increasingly pushed to work more and more hours by job centre whilst kids younger. I am NOT saying everyone can’t cope with working and young children, and I’m NOT saying it’s anyone’s fault or often anyone’s choice. Just that the times in my life I’ve tried working full time when I had two young children, I did a lot of ‘permissive parenting’ and screens because I hadn’t the energy or time to try other strategies.Everyone was stressed and eventually burnt out. I did have a useless ex though who did nothing.

Also screens, screens, screens. I have big age gaps between my DC and my eldest was born pre screens.

Less family help.

Just lack of support for, predominantly, mothers.

“This generation of parents actually spend much more time actively engaging with and entertaining their children than previous generations did.”

Early 2000 when our kids were being born I do think this was true - not just us but parents around us. I think there's since been a shift to more screens to keep kids quiet since then.

I wasn't playing out in 80s - parents stricer with daughters - but I wasn't entertained so was reading a lot. My kids if I didn't take them to activties they wouldn't see other kids - there were none about all in some form of childcare - extended family or paid or activity.

I was glad we had kids close in age so they did have each other to play with but families since then have got smaller and tend to try and avoid having two kids in preschool chidlcare because of costs. Also housing families have is also due to costs getting smaller. More families have both parents working or are lone parents and often long commutes due to housing costs. I think it's all that that combined with death of playing out due to many factors including traffic levels means screen are used more then it becomes a habit and more parents do it so it becomes normalised.

Children, animals etc - there's this weird idea that they should just learn without any desire to TEACH them.

I do see that idea spreading as well.

I did know one mother like that when mine were young - TBF through school and other parents and other kids behavior she did though it was harsh on her and she did start to be excluded - I found child actually very easy to tell off/re-direct and get better behavior from so it really was a parent issue. I think though once a signifcant section of class is in that position it falls down - like immuization and herd immunity.

The damage was mainly confined to sense of smell, with some cognitive impact. However, all the research says that it is recoverable. Children have neuroplasticity, and their brains recover more quickly.

Then it doesn’t apply to you does it? I work with these children and yes send is used as a reason and yes the parenting it shite for many of these kids

You should see the one about primary homework.

It was less obvious, I think, that there were problems when fear of adults meant that a lot of children internalised their issues. So you wouldn't see the struggles, the misery, the restlessness etc. because children would bottle it all up because they knew they'd be physically hurt or ridiculed if it came out.

I think a lot of very strict academies still operate on this basis tbh. Terrify children sufficiently and you won't have so many problems because they'll use all their internal bandwidth to try to comply with requirements and the ones with SEN or who can't cope will go elsewhere.

I guess it depends on what the purpose of school is. Personally, I think good schools (and parents) help children to thrive, reach their potential, form respectful relationships and become emotionally secure. I think that's what we should be aiming at for all kids. And I'm not sure the punishment/humiliation approach favoured in previous generations really helped with that. For a start, it conditioned many girls to accept abuse as normal in future relationships imo.

Like k said it is lazy shit parenting and you see it everywhere.

This is probably a bit controversial but I think it has very little to do with parenting.

I think children are either born compliant or they are not.

Other factors come into play - mostly parents (especially the mothers) education levels but for the most part it’s what you’re born with.

It's bad parenting and the ability of parents to blame bad behaviour on special educational needs. Parenting takes time and consistency - people aren't willing to put in the time and effort to teach children how to behave.

My ds's older cousin taught my 3 year old to spit. I've never been so horrified and of course it's a great way to gain attention. Fortunately it was short lived but I remember it well even 23 years on!

All the teachers I know have left ,most after 20 odd years of teaching,can't even see out the last few years to retirement. A lot of it was lack of teaching assistants so teachers are basically on their own which is a scary prospect.

Not sure about the no touch policy,thought that went out years ago.

Was implies any damage was in the past. It implies all kids are recovered. It implies none of the children catching covid today will be affected.

Look at charities such as long covid kids. Look at the research on children’s brains.

It’s shit that covid does affect children. It’s shit that it’s ignored so much.

My parents both worked full time. My mum would come home from work at 6pm and start cooking dinner straight away (no distractions like screens). I remember in the evenings my mum would make lasagna or fish pie and leave it in the fridge so all she had to do was heat it up the next day. When my siblings and I were older, we would help with dinner. Looking back she was always busy!

I saw on same thread as MargoLeadbetterisQueen it was draw dropping the excusing and blaming the mother for enforcing a very reasonable boundary.

I'm wondering about the primary school one though - is it the one about only doing reading and nothing else?

I do have some sympathy we got a huge amount of busy work the kids often couldn't do a lone from primary - art and crafts - which could also get expensive - or project work every half term - to point felt I was resarching teaching subject for each child I had - or stuff that was never looked at but if not done they'd lose a break for it.

Because home work at primary can mean anything - research does show it's not great or has limited impact becuase busy work and actualy useful things like learning time tables or reading practise get mixed together.

In our case it did get to great a burden and many parents tried approaching teahcers - I did that got no-where as many said they were under pressure to set it - and then a group went to HT and when some kids time were added up it was a ridulous amount of time and changes were made and it was cut back.

I'm only going on what was written up in medical periodicals. You may of course have other evidence.

That's one school though.

Well it does cos unfortunately I've come across many ignorant twats who assume I'm a shit lazy parent who uses SEN as a excuse .You made a sweeping statement.Out of interest how do you decide who's got a shit parent and who's got a genuine SEN need when your working with these kids ? What test would I have to pass or hoops would I have to jump to gain your stamp of approval that I wasn't using a SEN DX as a excuse You shouldnt be working with any kids DX with SEN if thats your opinion . Most of us are just trying to make it through the day without knobheads like you judging us .

You have to agree it’s gone too far the other way. When I was a school kid (60s/70s; yes a long time ago) we didn’t have all this kiddie entitlement. Parents parented. Teachers taught and were respected. Now it’s like the Wild West. All the respect for adults has gone. Look at the state the country is in. Do you think my mum used to march up the school to fight the teacher every time I was told off? No. She was busy working. She’d say “well you must have done something”. Now it’s go where you like, do what you like. Zero self regulation with the kids encouraged to back chat the teachers. All the “you can’t touch me”. You’re a kid. Do as you’re told. wtf are we doing?

It is. You do. It’s shocking.