What is going on with (some) kids?!

[Purpleturtle45]

I have been a primary school teacher for 20 years and I just cannot believe the decline in behaviour and attainment In that time!

Yesterday I witnessed a 6 year old kick, spit at, punch and threaten to kill the DHT and ultimately trash the room and the staff are powerless to stop it as they aren't allowed to touch a child. This is a daily occurrence.

So many children are disrespectful and will argue back to your face now and a lot of the parents are just accepting of this! I honestly fear for the world if this is what the kids are like!

Every teacher I know is looking to leave, they are being driven to breaking point every day! It's all so worrying.

But we aren’t ignorant. I’ve been teaching since 1997. Things are at a crisis point. Even if I was as thick as two short planks or a hysteric as you seem to be implying I would surely notice a change in the behaviour of children over a thirty year period.

But it says exactly nothing about the child - it's about how the parent behave.

But a lot of children were abused by teachers and parents those days.

I say no and absolutely not all the time at work- the kids looked shocked. It stops the behaviour on the moment though.
The behaviour at my school is shocking and getting worse. Old management last year decided to introduce Paul bloody Dix behaviour policy where all you are supposed to do is do positive noting and any acts of aggression the kids were kept in the heads office for lunch playing games and talking about their feelzs- they thought it was great. As you can imagine the behaviour just escalated.

My kids were in nursery, wrap around care I barely saw them. Also had screens and lots of unhealthy snacks because it was easier as a single parent. NONE of my kids would punch spit or be rude because (going against the MN grain here) they would have got an almighty smack if I ever found out about it. They’re now 20,16 and 14 all grammar educated, doing amazing and are all round lovely respectful human beings. Parents today to me a lot of them seem feckless and even scared of their own kids. Scared to tell them off. Scared of the repercussions of the school for telling them off. Not me, I’d rather have had a telling off or social services knocking at my door criticising my behaviour before I’d be scared to discipline my kids. Kids nowadays get zero fresh air - get them outside, spend time with them, knacker them out. Get them into sport. Get them socialised. Don’t spoil them. It’s fairly simple. Punish them, stick to it, don’t threaten stuff then give in.

Oh god yes this, my son is at secondary school and have now had 2 mums come to me (actually they haven’t come to me I’ve got it back from other people because we have mutual friends) to say he is bullying their children, I have seen the messages and it is stupid playground squabbles and trying to show off in front of mates, I’ve chatted to him and reminded him of expected behaviours and he has apologised but really it was petty name calling that I would not have intervened in, as had been pointed out how will they become resilient? Problem solvers? Know how to deal with conflict as adults if parents are stepping in at every little thing.

proper bullying is abhorrent and I would not stand for it

Past mistreatment of children doesn’t make it acceptable to abuse teachers today.

A combination of Covid, Excuses, Entitlement and Mobile Phone use.

People are disconnected and would rather doom scroll on a phone and call this chillax time and this is their right after a busy day. The mental decline from this is huge and unprecedented.

I am autistic and ADHD and a teacher. I get told that Pupil X has ADHD so needs a break every 5-10 minutes and needs a fidget toy which distracts others. This is his entitlement and he needs to get up and move around doesn’t matter that the flow of the lesson is disrupted or he is doing an assessment etc (Year 11 pupil top set). He has the right to have a break and yes he does according to his reasonable adjustments. But he also uses it to make a noise, bang and scrape his chair, laugh and disrupt. So the rights of one out weigh the rights of others. They are multiple pupils like this in each class. Most days I teach 6 lessons back to back and rarely get a break I finish at 4.30 pm and then starts the emails to parents, marking, support sessions etc it is unsustainable for anyone.

Schools do not support staff. Parents do not support staff. Staff are told it is their fault if a child misbehaves - the lesson wasn’t engaging enough, they (the student) had a bad start to the day, etc or whatever essentially blaming anyone and no accountability for their behaviour as they are a ‘child’. I am leaving after 30 years this year- teaching. I won’t miss it. It is a catastrophe and people can’t see it. They don’t see the exhaustion of teachers. We have 5 excellent PGCE students in my school at the moment English, Maths, Science etc and they aren’t teaching yet just observing and then doing starters next week and they have 5 lessons a week and some observations on their timetables and they will have the teacher with them and won’t be planning whole lessons for a number of weeks. They are in their 20s and fit and healthy, a conversation with one yesterday she said she had never been more exhausted in her life and was getting home at 5.30 pm and crawling into bed and said she hasn’t started taking lessons or doing marking yet.
Yet the retirement age is 67 and probably will be 70 years for them.

I do believe in support for mental health and emotional health but I have had teenagers who refuse point blank to accept accountability for their total lack of work or behaviour and blame anything or anyone but accept accountability for themselves.

I agree with some of this. However too many are not like this and they have screens unlimited access and they are totally entitled.

I had an argument with my adult daughter and just to see what would happen I put in my point of view and then her point of view into AI. The incident was her poor planning and me being very disrupted to pick her up late at night during a working day and then not being thanked and rudeness the following day from her. To see the advice. My advice to me: been kind and continue to let her know I’m there on her terms when she is ready. Don’t address her poor behaviour she’s learning and a young adult etc Her AI advice to her: effectively go no contact and surround yourself with friends that agree with you etc your mum isn’t supporting you and it all sound very hard for you etc and it is all entitlement and support and how unreasonable you need parental support take space to reflect etc. it was mind blowing. It wasn’t - go and apologise for waking your mum at midnight and causing her three hours of no sleep. Get flowers and stop relying on others because you haven’t planned properly and organise an uber etc it was literally poor you.

The number of pupils who put my questions into google and then copy the answers - literally they are doing this and the cognitive decline is overwhelming. Young people are taught that an apology is saying ‘I’m sorry for how you feel and carrying on’. Don’t apologise for my feelings change your behaviour.

I work in Secondary behaviour and what I see is very different to my own schooling in the early 90s. In the 90s, classrooms could be chaotic but you could also sit and gossip with your mates, loads of kids would skive and leave site and not much happened. Demand was low. Many parents uninvolved.

Now, IMO, teaching methods have improved, lessons are high demand and outcomes have improved. But if you can’t handle that you’ll wander the corridors, hide in toilets, text home to say a teacher is picking on you, request to see the counsellor/ pastoral re mental health. Parents will argue their child has to wear a nose stud, go to the toilet when they want, not so certain subjects with a level of growing entitlement.

Also, inclusion as an ethos I agree with. However, with no funding and resources it is unfair on everyone and does cause huge problems. Our local authority SEND team don’t answer calls or emails or offer any support until a child is permanently excluded, usually for a violent or physical outburst or assault.

The ignorance is in the response - kids need a slapping, mums today are lazy etc etc. As if societal challenges are created in a vacuum and somehow 'we' the good parents can navigate the challenges of modern life successfully and 'they' the bad parents are just a bit shit.

If screen use, junk food, lack of social cohesion, poverty, loss of a secure financial safety net, lack of responsibility to your neighbor - are allowed to be predominant features of life we can expect children to be affected. We've ALL accepted this way of life because it is convenient and easy. No one wants to give up their mobile, their social media, their individuality, their comfort, in favour of something that benefits the greater good right? We are happy, or we think we're happy, to post shite like this online. We are not happy to challenge someone else's badly behaved toddler in a train station.

It is ignorant to lay the blame for wider issues at the feet of individuals while smugly proclaiming that your kid would never.

“However too many are not like this and they have screens unlimited access and they are totally entitled.”

Parents just don’t want to be bothered with their children. They would rather give them unlimited access to screens than actually spend time parenting them. Parents are putting their needs and wants before their own children.

“We've ALL accepted this way of life because it is convenient and easy.”

People don’t have to accept it. Parents can choose not to feed their kids junk food regularly. It’s deciding what’s important and giving up your time to feed your children healthily. It’s more time consuming, so many parents won’t want to do it. This comes down to laziness. It is easy to blame everyone else instead of yourselves.

“If screen use, junk food, lack of social cohesion, poverty, loss of a secure financial safety net, lack of responsibility to your neighbor - are allowed to be predominant features of life we can expect children to be affected.

There has always been poverty and a loss of a secure financial safety net. People still managed to produced healthy meals for their children and parented them.

So then what has changed? Why have parents suddenly decided to stop being good parents? Why have humans sudden become lazy, in your opinion, in the last 15-20 years?

Screens

Parents have more distractions than previous generations, driven primarily by digital technology. Social media encourage parents, especially mothers, to have ‘me’ time, arguing that putting themselves first isn’t selfish but necessary.

Then why are we all still on our screens??

Yes probably. Yet here I am, a mother, communicating with you, presumably also a mother, on social media.

If social media and screen use is so bad why the fuck does mumsnet even exist??

Or @xye - is that you are a better parent/ mother/ human and your screen time isn't detrimental and selfish unlike the bad parents and their bad kids? Is your session on mumsnet this morning also part of the dangerous feminine urge for me time?

They’re designed to seem to be a necessity, for almost everyone it is very hard to restrict usage. It has to be a very conscious decision and can be a challenge to sustain. We are living in insular bubbles of our own creation, being fed whatever the algorithm dictates or posting inane content to rot each others brains. This generation is probably lost but signs are that younger people are more discerning and understand how invasive it is.

I agree. We have all sleep walked into something. It is desperately unfair to blame mums and their lack of spankings or whatever for a system wide design that we're all part of, knowingly or otherwise.

Castigating other mums online, anonymously, is part of the problem

It’s a management issue. We moved our reception DC away from a school with terrible behaviour management to another local school with a more deprived catchment but very good behaviour management. The difference is massive and now he’s absolutely thriving.

Senior leadership need to be on it with stamping out unacceptable behaviour right from the start of reception and being really clear with parents about what’s expected (from them and their children). Even before the kids start school the parents are sent a parent pact setting out behaviour expectations which is communicated with regular reminders.

Parents are working more, even with two working parents it’s hard to live.

It isn't that clear cut. I grew up in poverty with a feckless mother in the 80s and 90s. She didn't work so time wasn't an issue. We were never fed healthy meals. We lived off processed crap. Crispy pancakes, chicken nuggets, chips and those stacks of ridiculously cheap pizzas. I can't say we were parented well either. I was never taught about personal care, I was dirty and smelly with knotted hair which was rarely brushed. We were always outside. Mainly because she didn't want to deal with us. We were always doing stupid stuff, I'm surprised we are all still alive. And my behaviour at school wasn't great either. This wasn't uncommon for where we lived. I didn't realise how wrong certain parts of my childhood were until I left.

Its not being widely accepted. In my current social circle everyone is feeding their children well and limiting screen time. Screen free parenting is a big thing. There are studies showing there is a big class divide regarding screens which adectotally rings true for me. I have cousins who are out of work and still live on the estate we grew up on. Their children have ipads and watch them for seemingly unlimited amounts of time. They know all the characters from the current shows and the few books they own are based off these. Its such a contrast to where we are currently living which is far more middle class.

And its the same if you look at diet. Working class kids eat more processed foods and are more likely to be obese.

I agree, it’s always been hard for many families to get by, but the majority of parents managed to find the time to raise their children. Children used to know the basics, like being toilet trained before starting school.