Sure teacher is lying, but can't prove it

[Chew33]

My 12 year old son received a detention (c2) for talking in class. He is usually as good as gold and gets great feedback, so this was very unusual. He said he got this with no verbal warning or c1, which is the procedure they're supposed to follow. He said she shouted c2 whilst pointing at him from across the room.
I challenged the procedure not being followed. The teacher emailed me in response with a completely different version of events. She said he'd had several warnings, then. C1 from her, then a c2 from the librarian! My son has admitted he was talking too much, but is adamant her version was no where near the truth. He even checked with one of the kids after the fact, who agreed.
I know when my kid lies. He goes bright red and its so obvious atm. I know he's telling the truth, and I'm disgusted how he's been treated. I think she just lost her temper and knows she did wrong. The detention itself was very short and never recorded in the system. He said she just said as this is your first strike and you're usually so good let's let this one go.

So I emailed back expressing i understood his talking was unacceptable, however I was very concerned about the difference in recalling events. She's doubled down and said her report is accurate.

Do I let this one go, or not? My gut is telling me she's definitely lying, but I don't know what to do or its worth pursuing further.

He’s 12, I hate to say it but he’s heading into the years of oneupmanship in the classroom with his mates and pushing boundaries, even for good kids. It’s most likely there will be more of these to come! Be firm now, be clear, make sure he knows that school has your support and that mistakes may happen in life but he needs to deal with that.

As a teacher in this is so painful and upsetting to read. No one was lying. It’s not that deep. It’s a detention that wasn’t even recorded. Why does it matter. He was talking he shouldn’t have been he was told at least twice. In a library.

As a teacher I see 5 x groups of 30 people per day. I cannot remember the precise conversation I have with each person that leads to a C1 c2 etc. The teacher has done him a favour. Makes me so sad. He just does the detention and move on.

Drop it, she is still his teacher either way, even if you are right how could it possibly help the situation?

Is it the school policy to log both? Both schools I've worked in, nothing is logged until after the lesson. If a student has received a C1 but then continues to misbehave and gets a C2, only the C2 is logged, otherwise it's sanctioning them twice (ie two negative/behaviour points)

For the sake of his future behaviour, he has to know unequivocally that you will support the school. Teachers don’t go through the ballache of setting and recording detentions for no reason - he will have been being a nuisance, and may well have underestimated just how disruptive a mistimed display of low-level disruption on his part can be. This is the conversation you need to be having with him, I think. Students who get used to saying, “My mum’ll phone the school” are the worst offenders because they learn they can disrupt with impunity - don’t let him become one of those, because he sounds lovely at the moment! Good luck!

Just to be clear, at no point have I said anything to my child that contradicts the teacher. He attended the detention and he's been told off for the behavior at home.

He was advised of the detention Wednesday and attended Friday and I had no intention of stopping him from going. My email was sent after the fact to understand what happened.

I've already mentioned I can struggle with these things sometimes. I've sent an email to the teacher thanking them for getting back to me and confirming we've spoken to him about his behaviour.

OP it’s really that simple!

Yes, it is

I HAVE told him off for talking and lack of respect.

You say you know when your son is lying, but you can’t know that for sure! You only know about the times he goes red. How do you know that there aren’t occasions when he doesn’t go red when he’s telling a lie, perhaps because he feels justified?

In any case, let it drop. Even if you’re right and the teacher made a mistake and is covering up, so what? Your son wasn’t harmed. Teachers are humans too. Let it go.

She what now? The last Irishmen’s fur badly behaved child is done?

Why are you struggling with “these things”. It’s a non event!

This. A million times this.

When my son was revising for his GCSEs he said he learned more from a two hour session with me than from all the lessons he had over the previous two years. I asked him why he hadn’t gone over the material before. He said that it’s because half of all of the lessons were taken up with stopping kids like your son talking.

This doesn’t sound like bullying or meanness on the teacher’s part. Just them teaching your son to learn from this very important lesson.

posted without glasses!!

The punishment has been dealt with! No Irishmen involved!

Yep. Every kid lies to their parent, he'll get multiple lies past you every week. Stop being so naive. Parents like you is why discipline is falling apart in schools. "My little prince never lies and is being unfairly targeted by the lying/incompetent... teacher". This is why behaviour is eroding. Believe the teacher, or you will raise a son who can't be put in his place and will struggle in the real world.

This is a wind up surely

Yes agree.

Also different schools show the prior warnings differently. I used to work in secondary and the whole behaviour policy was a nightmare to follow.
Similar to this, we were told to first verbally warn children 'Fred stop talking or if will be a c1'. Then you had to write C1s on the board so that the class could see that they had been given the official first warning....but then some (parents I presume) complained so you couldn't write names, only initials which when you had a new class or class you saw once a fortnight was fun!
You then had leadership saying everyone must be consistent and follow the behaviour policy to the letter. But then you had emails saying 'Make it clear to Fred they have been warned and give them additional chances'.
Better schools I have known do follow the consequence policy and are consistent but where parent complaints are high then the behaviour policy seems to be 'flexible'.

Also I wouldn't rely on friends giving the truth. From about KS2 upwards kids learn to keep their mouth shut when it comes to getting classmates in trouble. Even my son in year 6 who is generally reliable will come home and if he has had supply might moan about behaviour or what people were doing. But if I say did you tell someone he will say no, because no one wants to snitch on anyone.
So for all you know your son may have been told verbally, given a formal first warning and then got the final warning.

I no longer teach, it's a hard job especially secondary with behaviour.

Haha, that’s hilarious - I was wondering if it was an old saying I heard heard of.

I have told him off for talking and lack of respect. Thank you. No intention of letting him think that behaviour is ok.

I’m autistic op and from what I’ve read you are not disputing the fact that your son talked, or that he was disciplined for it.

The school has a procedure to follow and the teacher didn’t follow it, she lost her temper and skipped two steps then lied as she knew she shouldn’t have done it . But is it possible that staff can go straight to C2 in some situations? So whilst she was potentially unfair she didn’t break the rules.?

Whilst it sounds like she is in the wrong she tried to make amends by giving a short detention that doesn’t go on his record. You could push this but to what end? It may mark yours or your son’s backs as trouble causes. And create a diffficult atmosphere at school.

There’s always people in life who don’t follow procedures or behave in a way that is unfair or un just. This is just one of those times but is probably not a hill to die on.

I see this a lot. My guess is that she did give him a warning but didn’t explicitly say C1 (maybe by accident or maybe because she didn’t think it needed saying) therefore in her mind she has followed procedure because she has given a warning whereas in your son’s mind it came from nowhere because he didn’t think he had a c1. Just poor communication/understanding on both parts rather than anyone being a liar.

No just a blind bat posting too early! 🤣🤣🤣

Agreed thanks. With a good night's sleep and time to reflect it all makes much more sense. Few things have happened this week that have thrown me off.

Clearly he was being a pain in the arse. He's been given an appropriate punishment. The whole behaviour policy thing sounds like it's causing more problems that it solves - a teacher should have the ability to escalate their response to bad behaviour if they need to.

It's just a detention, no harm done. Tell your son to behave himself in future, and then he won't get any more. I feel so bloody sorry for teachers!!

Support the teacher - your son was obviously not behaving as he should.
The teacher does not need to hear from parents every time they want a quiet class - they have enough to do!
Your son won’t always be the Angel you think he is and he’s got to learn a bit of discipline (or a lot) He’s probably aware he’s got his mum just where he wants her.

Great that the teacher and you have now nipped this disruptive behaviour in the bud - it sounds like a useful early lesson to have learned. As I said to one of mine when they had similar - it is extremely disrespectful of you to disrupt people who want to learn and I and the school will not tolerate it as you have learned (I’d be delighted as a parent that they don’t tolerate it however ‘low level’ it may have been - it’s a massive pain and waste of a lesson to those who do want to learn). If policy was or wasn’t followed to the letter then so be it. It’s obviously your ‘right’ to email but I feel sorry for the teacher who in an already beyond busy schedule will have had to take the time to justify this to you.