Sure teacher is lying, but can't prove it

[Chew33]

My 12 year old son received a detention (c2) for talking in class. He is usually as good as gold and gets great feedback, so this was very unusual. He said he got this with no verbal warning or c1, which is the procedure they're supposed to follow. He said she shouted c2 whilst pointing at him from across the room.
I challenged the procedure not being followed. The teacher emailed me in response with a completely different version of events. She said he'd had several warnings, then. C1 from her, then a c2 from the librarian! My son has admitted he was talking too much, but is adamant her version was no where near the truth. He even checked with one of the kids after the fact, who agreed.
I know when my kid lies. He goes bright red and its so obvious atm. I know he's telling the truth, and I'm disgusted how he's been treated. I think she just lost her temper and knows she did wrong. The detention itself was very short and never recorded in the system. He said she just said as this is your first strike and you're usually so good let's let this one go.

So I emailed back expressing i understood his talking was unacceptable, however I was very concerned about the difference in recalling events. She's doubled down and said her report is accurate.

Do I let this one go, or not? My gut is telling me she's definitely lying, but I don't know what to do or its worth pursuing further.

So why is it so important how many warnings he got and who gave them? I thought from your other recent responses that you had realised it was daft for you to be putting more emphasis on the process being 'correct' than on the misdemeanour itself, but now I’m not so sure. I think you are wasting your mental energy on something that really isn’t important. He didn’t suffer and teachers are not infallible superhumans.

There will be occasions in your son's life when it’s important that you fight for him, but this isn’t one of them.

Let it go.

I posted this for advice as I'm new to secondary school workings and do struggle dealing with changes to procedure sometimes due to my autism.

I've taken all the comments on board and sent an apology email to the teacher. Rest assured my child was well and truly told off as soon as we heard of the incident and at no point was he aware I was making enquiries.

Thanks for those who provided constructive advice. For my own sanity I'll be leaving this thread now as so.e of the comments are more aggressive than I personally can cope with. Thanks again

Exactly! When I retired from teaching I considered sending out a letter to parents saying all the things I’d been longing to say for years, and this was top of the list. (Sadly I allowed myself to be talked out of it.)

Non-teaching staff, ime over the decades, are always amazed, aghast, at the speed and complexity of school life when they take up a post. Teachers are far too busy to pick on Little Johnny. They just want to get on with the lessons they’ve prepared, deliver content in the most propitious circumstances (i.e. with everyone’s attention), ensure each and every child learns something and benefits.
By questioning what’s happened you’re hindering him taking responsibility for his actions and persistently wasting his teacher’s time, which is exactly how I’d have viewed this when I was a teacher. Don’t give the impression the apple hasn’t fallen far from the tree.
Stop contacting her. Speak firmly to him and make it abundantly clear he was in the wrong. You might not believe this but it’s wise to demonstrate it. Like parenting, you’re working in a team; the only difference is it’s with teachers. Support the school - that way everyone thrives, particularly him and you.

@Chew33 I am sorry that people have been deliberately ignoring your latest updates. I straddle both worlds as a teacher and a mumma bear… and I completely get what you are saying! I am a reinforcer of school discipline but occasionally I do acknowledge an overreaction or a miss in protocol but I ignore and move on. But it has taken me time to do this. I needed to hold back and remind myself that my children are not always angels! You’re doing a great job by reinforcing the no talking message at home! Have a lovely Sunday x

I so want the laughing emoji back for just these kind of epic posts! Perfection!

Glad you've apologised to the teacher.

For reference, a lot of us are ND (diagnosed autistic myself). So when you're considering your own needs in the context of parenting, please also consider the teacher's needs in the context of educating children. In other words, the ND of a parent doesn't automatically trump the ND of a teacher because we're not service providers and parents aren't customers (who are always right).

I'm getting there. Hard to let go sometimes. Thanks for this, calmed my nerves slightly.

There's a lot you can learn from this.

Your mistake was to concentrate on your view - with evidence ONLY from your DS - that the teacher didn't follow the "proper" process.

Instead, you should have focussed on the fact that even if the teacher had followed the published disciplinary process, he was still talking.

If she's had to reprimand warn once, then the second time given him a detention, what does that tell you? It tells you that he was TWICE talking when he shouldn't have been.

Next time, try to focus on what the real issue is: your son's behaviour.

Well done OP.

You posted on here for advice and opinions and you’ve taken it all on board and made the right decision from it.

Your son wouldn’t have known he was talking too much if he hadn’t been given a prior warning and so it sounds like procedures were very much followed but as it’s DS’s first one, he was likely shocked and not realised how poorly he was behaving.

No harm done.
No need for additional punishments or to keep on at him about it.
We all break the rules sometimes.

Honestly, I’ve not always made the best judgement calls when handling my own children’s school consequences, but I have learnt on the way. Weirdly, it’s sometimes harder being a teacher because I put my own ‘what would I do?’ onto it. But I have learnt to let go. In this case you have done the right thing with your follow up email and the teacher will appreciate you for it! Now get yourself off this thread, and enjoy the day!

😂

I can't speak for other areas, but even after Dunblane, not all schools in Scotland had this level of security, particularly in older buildings.

I had a parent turn up at my class on time, purely by entering one of the 'pupil doors' from the playground instead of swinging in by the office entrance.

We moved into a new build in 2015. A member of the public was able to enter by coming in the pupil entrance just as all the kids were leaving for lunch. This was supposedly a secure door, but was set to open on a timer.

For my own sanity I'll be leaving this thread now as so.e of the comments are more aggressive than I personally can cope with.

Many teachers who post on MN pile on any threads criticising teachers and come across as absolute bullies. I dread to think what they are like in classrooms.

Why don’t you come and watch? You could ask to observe in your local secondary as a precursor to applying to train? You would honestly find it fascinating.

*one time

Just wanted to say I think the apology will mean a lot to the teacher. This is only the beginning of your secondary experience and having a positive relationship with the school will make all the difference.

The very first year 1 teacher I worked with used to tell parents, "if you don't believe everything they say about me, I won't believe everything they say about you."

My kids are year 7 and 8 in secondary school. My son (year 7) has had loads of s1 and a couple of s2.

What I would say is from my experience, especially s1 they are handed out like smarties. That's not to say my son hasn't deserved the majority of them, yes he has.
Honestly I would try not to think of it as such a bit deal.

Well done op for the update, as Del Boy would’ve said “you know it makes sense” 😀

OP, I respect how you’ve read the responses on this thread, reflected and reconsidered your stance.

forget it now. It’s dealt with. Lessons learned.

Enjoy the rest of your weekend.

Well done for having the wisdom to seek other opinions and for taking on board what was said. It sounds as though you have dealt with it really well. You will have learned something and so has your son and that is all to the good.

This parenting lark can be a challenge as our mother tiger instincts are very strong!

I am sorry you felt some of the comments were a bit blunt - but I know teachers do a difficult job and get a hard rap. It is this sort of interaction that gives them trouble when they are just trying to create an environment where learning can take place without disruption. The crowd control issues in teaching are by far the most difficult aspect - teaching the subject is a doddle!

Well done all round!

I hope you’re still reading Chew33.
I once had a parent of a Year 7 child who contacted the school to question my brief written comment. Imo my feedback was effective, a gentle reminder to employ the skills her DD had, a reflection of the fact that I was teaching 7 classes, not the single one her DD had had in primary school.
She accepted the explanation and made no further contact. As a mum and an experienced teacher, I happily got on with her DD’s progress. In my mind she had the right to do what she’d done, the situation was resolved, inconsequential, forgotten.
By parents evening she had more experience of my teaching and could see me in the flesh. Not knowing her, I half expected her to be on the attack but she apologised and admitted she’d been anxious about her DD going up in the school world, unsure about new teachers. She must have fretted needlessly though she appreciated it hadn’t in any way affected my approach to her DD.

How I valued that mum. I’ve never forgotten her.

Well done, OP. Move on and have a good weekend.

I've used the C1, C2, C3 etc. Where I used it

C1 is a warning, the child's name goes on the board.

C2 is a tick against the name.

If the child's behaviour doesn't get any worse then the board is wiped and the child goes to their next lesson with a clean record.

If it is the same at this school then there is no record of C1 or C2.

Iirc Op said at her school C1s are recorded, involve negative house points and come after the verbal warning. My kids' school is the same.

Not entirely clear from OP's posts whether the C2 was recorded - if it was you'd think it would be clear whether teacher or librarian gave it. Maybe they have a mechanism for giving a detention without a recorded C2, which would be different from ours where the recorded C2 triggers the detention message.

Sorry, triggered my detective instincts. It's still not the main point here.