TES Community

[Scumble]

Where the dickens has it gone? Is it gone gone? Has it been renamed and I just can't find it?

@LittleRedMan

Hi Stiltskin.

Needabreak, were you the guy withthe guitar?

There is a guitar here but I don't think I'm who you think.

[quote DrLinus]@LittleRedMan

"It's got to be a genuine community I think. TES forum was quite good at getting that balance.
If it's all pre-moderated and screened for the "right" opinions it becomes an echo chamber , a bit like Schools Week?"
TES was beginning to feel like one of those primary classrooms in which the teacher only ever calls upon the girls to answer questions.[/quote]
I am not sure that fielding questions and moderation are the same thing, equally though there needs to be a common standard of acceptable behaviour within any "community" as well as an agreement on the focus of the forum from the beginning otherwise people will not have an indication if the forum is for them. The new venture is as I have said before will not be emulating the TES Community Model, it will have education at its heart, as previously mentioned there are lots of existing places to partake in general chit chat, this place is but one example.

Perhaps someone else will be interested in starting a platform with politics or other things are the focus if they think that there is a gap in that particular provision.

@LittleRedMan - I couldn't quote your post that refers to genuine community but I would say communities in all their forms develop not made so time will tell.

@Neededabreak

"I am not sure that fielding questions and moderation are the same thing"
The analogy works well enough, referring to the answering of questions not the fielding of them.

[quote DrLinus]@Neededabreak

"I am not sure that fielding questions and moderation are the same thing"
The analogy works well enough, referring to the answering of questions not the fielding of them.[/quote]
My understanding of moderation is that it ensures people adhere to agreed t&c's which might have a focus in mind but broadly does not lead the discussion.

Questions may be posed but generally this isn't the role of the mods. Have I misunderstood you or do we concur?

I am pretty sure having a view and campaigning for support of that view are different things and there is a very fine line that separates them, especially but not exclusively it seems in regards to views and political campaigns.

@Neededabreak

"Have I misunderstood you or do we concur?"
The first.
I was not referring to literal questions & answers on TES but instead the manner in which everyone whose views differed from established norms were moderated incessantly while those promoting those norms were permitted to be as rude & aggressive as they chose.

Paid mods are no guarantee of fairness because they will always follow the rules of their employer and bend towards what they consider normative.

@Neededabreak

I am pretty sure having a view and campaigning for support of that view are different things and there is a very fine line that separates them, especially but not exclusively it seems in regards to views and political campaigns.

A distinction without a difference. All utterances are attempts at persuasion. The appeal to a fine line is invariably sold by those who claim to be best qualified to discern it. Like the tailors to an emperor in that story.

If you have a educational website where people have to use their real names, like the TES Facebook account, or TES News, less teachers will communicate on them and those that do, will carefully guard what they say. You will also note, discussions can not take place, only comments can be given. Hence the hosting and maintenance costs of such a provision is minimal.

Once you allow people to post, what they like, from wherever they like and anonymously, then the problems arise and then you will need to invest in a team of 24/7 moderators, insurance and other costs.

I was on a few political websites yesterday and some lot of them required a face to face or internet interview to make sure the contributors weren't the police or journalists etc. This is why people with extreme political agendas have a desire to infiltrate free websites.

There will never be an open, free for all website like the TES Community became over the last two years.

Thank God!

@staymotivated

If you have a educational website where people have to use their real names, like the TES Facebook account, or TES News, less teachers will communicate on them and those that do, will carefully guard what they say. You will also note, discussions can not take place, only comments can be given. Hence the hosting and maintenance costs of such a provision is minimal.

Once you allow people to post, what they like, from wherever they like and anonymously, then the problems arise and then you will need to invest in a team of 24/7 moderators, insurance and other costs.

I was on a few political websites yesterday and some lot of them required a face to face or internet interview to make sure the contributors weren't the police or journalists etc. This is why people with extreme political agendas have a desire to infiltrate free websites.

There will never be an open, free for all website like the TES Community became over the last two years.

Thank God!

I agree, a compromise could be had if they registered with their real ID and once ID is verified they are able to post with an online ID, thus there would be a record of their real ID to avoid trolling or sock puppeteering as well a a trail of responsibility should they post anything inappropriate.

Read inappropriate as in breach of t&c's/illegal.

@Neededabreak

"I agree, a compromise could be had if they registered with their real ID and once ID is verified they are able to post with an online ID, thus there would be a record of their real ID to avoid trolling or sock puppeteering as well a a trail of responsibility should they post anything inappropriate."
Given the current political climate many prospective members would be unwilling to provide an anonymous forum owner or management team with their actual identities so the same rule would also need to apply to those behind the forum.

[quote DrLinus]@Neededabreak

"I agree, a compromise could be had if they registered with their real ID and once ID is verified they are able to post with an online ID, thus there would be a record of their real ID to avoid trolling or sock puppeteering as well a a trail of responsibility should they post anything inappropriate."
Given the current political climate many prospective members would be unwilling to provide an anonymous forum owner or management team with their actual identities so the same rule would also need to apply to those behind the forum.[/quote]
Most registered business owners have their basic ID in the public domain anyway do they not?

However, most teachers would not want to be identifiable, by anyone. Look at the number of people commenting on the TES facebook and TES News page right now. If say, on a website that can not be named, a request for voluntary contributions is made via paypal, one's main email address, which the paypal account is linked to, identifies the individual.

Website owners have responsibility for the data stored on that site and legal claims have arisen, caused by personal data being stolen via individuals hacking into the site. This is why website insurance cover is so expensive.

Most individuals have more than one email account and link their non essential stuff to their lesser accounts. Some even go a stage further and buy ISP addresses all over the world (pretty cheap to do so really), so that their locations can not be confirmed and create multiple accounts, on free websites of course. Having to link your main email address, i.e. the one you list your bank accounts, pension contributions and all the important stuff etc. to a website where you express your views, isn't a viable option for many.

@staymotivated

However, most teachers would not want to be identifiable, by anyone. Look at the number of people commenting on the TES facebook and TES News page right now. If say, on a website that can not be named, a request for voluntary contributions is made via paypal, one's main email address, which the paypal account is linked to, identifies the individual.

Website owners have responsibility for the data stored on that site and legal claims have arisen, caused by personal data being stolen via individuals hacking into the site. This is why website insurance cover is so expensive.

Most individuals have more than one email account and link their non essential stuff to their lesser accounts. Some even go a stage further and buy ISP addresses all over the world (pretty cheap to do so really), so that their locations can not be confirmed and create multiple accounts, on free websites of course. Having to link your main email address, i.e. the one you list your bank accounts, pension contributions and all the important stuff etc. to a website where you express your views, isn't a viable option for many.

Surely there are other ways to verify?

*Makes note to research what they are.

@Neededabreak

"Most registered business owners have their basic ID in the public domain anyway do they not?"
How will this proposed forum make a profit as a business?

@staymotivated

"If say, on a website that can not be named, a request for voluntary contributions is made via paypal, one's main email address, which the paypal account is linked to, identifies the individual."
Which locks partiality into any moderation there.
I will not trust those anonymous people with anything related to my finances.

Which leads to another issue, PayPal has two provisions, one for money paid by 'friends and family' and another for business payments, meaning that website owners collecting funds from various parties, should be informing HMRC as various business taxes comes into play, thereby making ownership of the said website, even more costly.

[quote DrLinus]@Neededabreak

"Most registered business owners have their basic ID in the public domain anyway do they not?"
How will this proposed forum make a profit as a business?[/quote]
Not all businesses are "for profit", but I guess you know that, you should and well you do now if you didn't.

[quote DrLinus]@Neededabreak

"Have I misunderstood you or do we concur?"
The first.
I was not referring to literal questions & answers on TES but instead the manner in which everyone whose views differed from established norms were moderated incessantly while those promoting those norms were permitted to be as rude & aggressive as they chose.

Paid mods are no guarantee of fairness because they will always follow the rules of their employer and bend towards what they consider normative.[/quote]
If that is your true belief you have no option than to try to start and run a forum yourself where you can promote your own beliefs, that should settle it.

@staymotivated

Which leads to another issue, PayPal has two provisions, one for money paid by 'friends and family' and another for business payments, meaning that website owners collecting funds from various parties, should be informing HMRC as various business taxes comes into play, thereby making ownership of the said website, even more costly.

I thought that was obvious but I guess it isn't to everyone, taxes are payable on profit end of.

Interestingly people who use tutor agency sites verify using either a live meet and or some type of acceptable photo ID scanned in, the username presented to customers is different. I have used such sites and don't need to question either their political motives or objectives. I would do the same with a verifiable forum though that said it might be better for a new organisation with specific networking goals to partner with an established organisation for such provision so as to allay any concerns, however judging by some comments such a partnership would create a whole other set of concerns but you can please some of the people some of the time...

If however people are intent on detracting from the forum's stated t&c's they will no doubt be moderated and potentially banned and monies refunded as per t&c's, similarly if they don't want to be verified for the purposes of user safety I would be a little concerned over their reasons.

It is the age old adage, if you have done nothing wrong you should not have to worry. There are secure payment systems that can be used to ensure customers financial safety and if there wasn't nobody would shop online.

If anyone has any positive suggestions for the new initiative they should feel free to message me here and they will be given due consideration. Many thanks to those of you who already have contacted me with your thoughts, it is much appreciated, it is nice talking to you, and as we agreed I will keep you posted.

It just goes to show just how complicated setting up chat websites are, for whatever reasons. Successful ones like this one or the old TES Community in its day, had other sources of revenue, hence they could afford to offer it for free to its users. But once those websites get closed down, it's tough.

I think we will be seeing fewer free chat websites in the future and those that will exist will have stricter t&cs and may involve monthly payments too.

It is better to join a website knowing how much of a contribution is needed to keep it running, rather than joining a website on the premise it will be free, and then being asked to make voluntary contributions.

@staymotivated

It just goes to show just how complicated setting up chat websites are, for whatever reasons. Successful ones like this one or the old TES Community in its day, had other sources of revenue, hence they could afford to offer it for free to its users. But once those websites get closed down, it's tough.

I think we will be seeing fewer free chat websites in the future and those that will exist will have stricter t&cs and may involve monthly payments too.

It is better to join a website knowing how much of a contribution is needed to keep it running, rather than joining a website on the premise it will be free, and then being asked to make voluntary contributions.

If you talking about the staffroom - just to clarify: NO ONE has been asked to make voluntary contributions.

@staymotivated

It just goes to show just how complicated setting up chat websites are, for whatever reasons. Successful ones like this one or the old TES Community in its day, had other sources of revenue, hence they could afford to offer it for free to its users. But once those websites get closed down, it's tough.

I think we will be seeing fewer free chat websites in the future and those that will exist will have stricter t&cs and may involve monthly payments too.

It is better to join a website knowing how much of a contribution is needed to keep it running, rather than joining a website on the premise it will be free, and then being asked to make voluntary contributions.

I agree that is why we have not gone straight to launch the platform, it needs to have the subs sorted but that can only be done when we have established more of the costs, although some of those as we have discussed are variable according to use, that said the increased usage like any other increase in demand when met reduced the overall cost due to EOS, but it takes time... and the development of the platform takes time if you aren't working on it full time and are are relying on the free services of the tech guys as at present.