I'm so fed up with having to be so unkind to children to get them to learn

[OntheMat]

It's so bloody wearying. They have never heard the words no or wait. I cannot gently redirect because they do not listen until I'm speaking in such a strict, stern tone of voice I don't like myself.

What age are you teaching?

Oh my god I could have written this. I am currently having a recurring nightmare where I am screaming at the top of my lungs at my class and they just ignore me and get louder and louder and louder until I wake up. They are driving me batty.

Y1. I know they're still very young, but it's just repeated bad manners and choosing to do exactly what they like.

Maybe teaching isn't for you.

Perhaps a different school might be easier? I sympathise OP, some parents have never said no to their children as they don't want to "Crush their sprit". It's Karma though as the very same parents will have to live with their children when they are teenagers...

I completely empathise OP! I teach R/1/2 and I could have written your post. No advice just empathy

Not a teacher but a parent.......my sons teacher was really really strict for the first few weeks. She didnt let anything slide and the kids were coming home complaining she was scary and strict and that they missed their previous teacher. A few parents spoke with her she said she has to set the tone and let them know she expects listening and good behaviour, but it wasnt how she is in real life or how she wants to be but she has to let them know she is boss. Now they are doing loads of fun things in her class and all love her but behave for her. Lots of fun. Lots of learning. Sure it wasnt as easy as I am making it sound but now us parents are very impressed. Maybe will work for u too. Extra tough on even minimal bad behaviour for a few weeks and then everyone gets the benefit of a calm class. Appreciate I dont have any person experience and could be giving u advice u already have and also that it might not work for all children or be detrimental to timid children. But I just liked what his teacher did and from what I see/hear (all be it not everything) how well it worked. Good luck. It cant be easy.

I have the same problem in secondary school... A parent of a Year 8 student complained to the head about me violating her dc’s human rights. I had given a behaviour point for repeated calling out and chatting, in line with the school’s behaviour system.
The head backed me up, but it is so tiring!

Working as a TA in a class that are so badly behaved it's absolutely draining. It's horrible, absolutely hate it.

Yep, I teach secondary and feel the same. From yr7 students who can’t have a thought without expressing it out loud to the yr10 who has already refused to work on the Shakespeare needed for his exams (we were on lesson 1 🙄). I’m so fed up of dealing with the sense of entitlement from these children who believe that they can do whatever they want.

Haha my mum uses the same technique and she teaches 6th form!! Be the cross strict teacher for the first half or so to get them in line then you can relax a bit when they know you won't take it.

DS was in a class like that throughout his time at Primary School. Had different teachers every year with different techniques but none of them seemed to work on a hardcore number of children. Parents would say teachers needed to be stricter then as soon as their child was told off they would be in complaining to the Head that the teacher was too strict

Teachers at the school I govern at complain about this too - parents are complete pains too. We are in a naice, well off area. We are running out of ideas :(

I’m also a governor who hears this a lot, and my dd seems to be in a particularly badly behaved class. There is a generation of children coming through who are set no boundaries and never told no. They aren’t taught to have consideration for others, but that they are the most important person in the room. I’ve seen it many many times and it’s terrifying to think that these kids will one day run the country.

Can you reframe it as ‘being cruel to be kind’?

Ultimately you getting them to behave IS you being nice to them.

They aren’t taught to have consideration for others, but that they are the most important person in the room.

Yes, it is absolutely this and like some of you have said, the parents are the root of it.

Ultimately you getting them to behave IS you being nice to them.

I know this, but my god it's not easy. Today was slightly better thankfully. I have been nothing but firm since Sept but the majority of them have had nothing in the line of firm discipline since birth so !

Trainee teachers are taught the ' start off strict ' during their training, whether they use that advice is up to the individual.
As a teacher I was never there to be popular or befriend the pupils, I was there to teach. Over the years I have met many many teachers who do want to be the ' popular ' teacher.'
Over the last 10 to 15 years behaviour has taken a huge dip, more and more challenging pupils in classes. Part of it stems from lack of respect for teachers and authority these days, which in turn has obviously been passed down by their parents.
Recently I was accused of abuse by a child simply because I told him to look at me when I was talking to him, he was 8 years old!
I was also recently told I could not prevent a child who was constantly asking to go to the toilet during lessons as he was trying to avoid doing any work ' because his parent's would be in complaining '

Are you a teacher Agatha?

I’ve had classes like this OP, older children, but they simply would not listen unless I was stern with them. The next year; like a pack of lambs. Some children are like that, it’s so tiring. I used to try to talk in as quiet a voice as I could manage and just stop if there were any interruptions. I appreciate that may not work with younger children.

I had a similar conversation today at school.
I’m in secondary and have found that they can’t moderate their noise level so end up making them work in silence.
I love a classroom with a quiet buzz of hard work. But it’s never just a quiet buzz!
The kids themselves do say that they can work better with no distractions, but it seems a little draconian, even to me.

I sympathise. My DD’s seem to have large groups of children who are rude. I helped on a trip with my DD in Year 2. One of the poor lads threw up on the bus. The teachers went to calm him and clean him up, all the while one boy kept screaming at him to talk. I turned and asked him to wait a minute, they were just making sure he was ok then he could talk to him. He pointed his finger at me and told me to shut up and keep my nose out of his business. This is not a one off and his parents say he’s cute and learning. I don’t call that cute. And we expect teachers to get it up with this with no parental support. It’s a sad sign of the times.

The problem with the shouting is that it affects all the wrong kids. DD has just started secondary and though she wouldn't say boo to a goose she is petrified of putting a foot out of line and being yelled at. The other day she was threatened with a detention for taking too long to tie her shoelaces after PE, no doubt from a teacher who just expected all the kids to be swinging the lead, when some of them really aren't. Unfortunately the kids who won't shut up are also the ones who don't give a damn about being yelled at. So bear in mind please, if you are a shouty teacher the likelihood is high that you'll also be shouting at the well-behaved kids whose motives you've misunderstood, and who are now tiptoeing around school genuinely terrified of you.

@SpruceTree that phrase “don’t crush their spirit” was said to me by a parent of the most vile child in my tutor group. The kid is the nastiest cruellest bully I’ve ever known, but according to the parents we mustn’t address his behaviour!!!!

Poor behaviour is utterly draining and I’m just bored of it now. Agree with PP that it’s got worse in the last 10 years or so (I’ve been teaching 21)

I wonder whether you teach my son. His teacher is constantly moaning about what a difficult year group they are. Their reception teacher didn’t seem to have the same issue. It’s a shame, she’s a nice woman and clearly wants to do her job well but she doesn’t seem to be good with children. I think it’s just one of those things, having a bunch of 5 year olds that you have to teach to write and do sums etc is going to be hellish unless you are a child whisperer. I’d probably kill myself if I had to do that job. Someone really should offer child manipulation courses for teachers and parents.

Agree with PPs saying this is a problem that is slowly getting worse. I’ve been in teaching for over 20 years and the behaviour has nose dived in that time.

It’s very definitely partly parents (I listen to the way these kids talk to their parents in the playground and it’s appalling), but it’s also the television and media they are exposed too I think. Reality tv particularly celebrates and rewards rude, unpleasant and demanding behaviour. Their role models are appalling.

As a teacher it’s draining and exhausting and I would imagine one of the reasons the profession is haemorrhaging teachers. And the fact that if you dare to tell their kids off they come screaming into school threatening all sorts (and I also teach in a naice school). We are storing up real real issues for the future when these little “darlings” hit the real world .

Parents come into school I mean - not the kids!