I'm so fed up with having to be so unkind to children to get them to learn

[OntheMat]

It's so bloody wearying. They have never heard the words no or wait. I cannot gently redirect because they do not listen until I'm speaking in such a strict, stern tone of voice I don't like myself.

@FrangipaniBlue, yes DS has just started secondary and definitely prefers the classes with the stricter teachers!

@ChidiAnnaKendrick

It genuinely concerns me that you’re a teacher.

Chidi, low level disruption is recognised as being widespread across schools and key stages - I would say 80% of my current class struggle to regulate their behaviour. I absolutely don't buy that they all have SEN and you're doing your own son and others with SEN no favours by claiming this is the case as their needs become further sidelined in an already chronically underfunded sector.

Please tell me you don't talk to your pupils like that ChidiAnnaKendrick

Not a teacher. Parent of SEN kid.

@chidiannakendrick you're off your rocker. Pure venom. Unnecessary, and uncalled for.

My son can be disruptive due to SEN. He can also be disruptive because he is a kid and all kids can display unwanted behaviours. I am able to see when my child displays naughty behaviour and when he displays undesireable behaviour due to SEN. The amount of shocked teachers I have had, with utter relief on their faces when faced with a reasonable and understanding parent is ridiculous. Teachers shouldn't be surprised a parent is realistic about their own kid! Teachers are hero's in my eyes.

@chindi
Stop lying, you're not a teacher. Only for the simple reason that you've blamed all of your child's issues on teachers, called us terrible names and distanced yourself. Then when someone calls you uneducated, you come back with the teacher card.
Maybe if you talked with some sense instead of foul mouthed rants you'd actually get somewhere.
Educated or not, I doubt anyone would allow you to speak to them is such a disgusting way.

chidi I sincerely hope you've had too much and you're not like this in real life. The fact that you're a teacher is even more shocking that you think that having a sweary tantrum would get you anywhere. You've made yourself look a fool and sorry but the apple probably doesn't fall far from the tree wrt to your child's behaviour.

I know the teachers I had dealings with have the stern at the outset approach and right through till Christmas, their students earn respect and in turn leaen to respect their teacher and other students.

I think the best thing a school can do is eduxate parents about how a classful of education will only reach everyone if everyone gives to the process.

To realise they belong to a huge group and have to be part of a big team to make it work.

I really believe that a lot of parents don't understand the dynamics of a class, and they would really benefit from hearing how a students self-discipline and regulation is essential to avoid stealing others educations away!

Theres nothing wrong with expressing yourself but theres also everything wrong with thinking youre the most important bore in the class!

I don't think its an enviable job, and parents need to be got on board with ensuring their own children are fully prepared for school life and not to spend it destroying school life for others. Grrr!

I’m so pleased to see this thread! Not a teacher. Am a cub leader. They just do not listen! I have to say the same things over and over and over again and it’s doing my head in. Have actually handed my notice in because I can’t bear it any longer.
My kids are older but they are so entitled about everything. DD has improved since she turned 18 and is working but DS is 16 now and is going to have a huge shock when he fails his GCSEs because he simply will not study.
I despair of the future.
I find that our adult learners who come through work are also similarly incapable of grasping what is appropriate behaviour for a professional environment. No you cannot rock up to work in an operating theatre with a freaking giant beard which is shedding everywhere- it is not clean!

And yes, it is abusers in training. The gaslighting, and the turning around and the hurtz, all the worst of entitled abusers.

Trainee teachers are taught the ' start off strict ' during their training, whether they use that advice is up to the individual

Ah yes, the Don't smile until Christmas advice.

I get what you are saying and I can see in fellow parents the attitude you are talking about. I have one SEN and one (fairly) NT and they can both try it on. And equally the after school club leader says they are both the most polite children because they know they won't get anything if they don't say please! (Well, unless DS is overwhelmed).
But I ALSO see other parents completely failing to notice their DCs doing anything good. I use this with my DCs and I did with my Brownies and they so much sit up and take notice when you say "Anna you are sitting so nicely. All you on that table are ready and listening, well done. Wow Betty you came to the front so quickly. Gosh Charlie you are really quiet". They all want a piece of that but I only see other parents calling their children out and then when the children DO what they are asked they get nothing back in return. Why would they then behave?
I'm a big fan of Calmer Easier Happier Parenting and I think all parents should be sent on a course on how to do Descriptive Praise!

Drspouse, totally agree! Parents sometimes don’t realise how much they are saying “no don’t do that/do it this way” etc that it has a detrimental affect

My son is currently watching Horrible Histories, I’ve been reminded that the ancient Greeks sent slaves into school to beat children who did not work hard enough. I really don’t think I’d mind if a few year 10 parents tried that!

Sorry, it’s been one of those days!

Anna you are sitting so nicely. All you on that table are ready and listening, well done. Wow Betty you came to the front so quickly. Gosh Charlie you are really quiet

No. These are basic expectations and a teacher should not have to waste their time congratulating children like this, and it IS a waste of time, because as pp have said, this approach doesn’t touch the child who doesn’t think they should have to do it in the first place. It’s not a terrible thing to do, and it does reassure some children that they are doing the ‘right’ thing, but it simply isn’t enough.

I’m so tired of parents saying, ‘Well we don’t have a problem with him at home’. I just want to tell them that then their expectations are far too low because I know that loads of these children are allowed to do exactly what they want.

*Anna you are sitting so nicely. All you on that table are ready and listening, well done. Wow Betty you came to the front so quickly. Gosh Charlie you are really quiet

I'm sorry, but do you really think this is some revolutionary piece of advice? And yes, as a PP said, they shouldn't need to be congratulated for following a simple instruction.

I'll just quickly illustrate how story time went today. We had just finished tidying up from CP and returned to their seats.

• Boys and girls, come down to the carpet and we'll finish with a story. Well done Susie, you did that straight away.
• Tommy, you are still in the home corner and we have finished tidying. Now come to the carpet.
• No, you don't need to sit in your carpet seats, because I'm going to trust you to sit nicely. Good choice Joe.
• Evie, what did I ask you to do? Look at the rest of the children please.
• Tommy, stop what you are doing. It is story time and you need to be on the carpet.
• Dylan, if you continue to do that I am going to move you.

Dylan promptly goes for 'I'm not doing anything' and we move off on a minor tangent for five minutes.

• Tommy is still in the home corner. 'Tommy, this is your final warning. Carpet, now.'
• Jennie, you are trying really hard, good girl.
• Evie, the whole class are sitting on the carpet.
• Evie announces 'I don't want to'. Death glare and requires counting down from 5.
• Alfie has to be moved for pinching.
• Tommy is still in the sodding home corner and only moves when I bark his name.

It took 10 minutes. It's absolutely ridiculous. It should have been done in 2. I should be able to say 'Boys and girls, come to the carpet'.

I was talking about parents as you'll have seen. I gave examples from when I did Brownies as that's a larger group. But I do not see parents doing this. Parents.

I work as a TA for job share teachers and they have vastly different teaching styles. One is super strict and the other is super relaxed. The teacher that gets the best behaviour from the children is the HLTA that does PPA cover. Not once has she raised her voice. She is the most calming influence and she puts the children into a really docile state.

Given they're reception kiddies this is no mean feat. They're like a completely different class with her. It really is quite spectacular to witness

I can only imagine how frustrating it must be for teachers. I only have two children to manage at home and if I have to repeat myself one more time I may literally combust with rage.

I don't know the answer to how you handle it (but pharmaceuticals may make you feel calmer). What I will say is that behaviour is a learned process as much as reading, or writing or football. Some kids will pick it up quickly, some won't and like other learning, how quickly and well they pick it up depends on the interactions at home, the modelling behaviours of adults, their cognitive and executive functioning, as well as social pressure. I know that you blame the parents and in many cases lazy parenting may be an issue. My child often gets into trouble in class because at 9 his executive functioning can be hit or miss. He has not been diagnosed with any additional needs but sometimes his memory and focus are not great. He is a good, kind, funny, smart child. His main issue is not responding straight away because he is focussed on something else. He had a probationary teacher last year who screamed at him daily for this. He cried in class several times because he was humiliated and afraid. I just ask all of you who are "shouty" teachers to remember that children do not learn when they are frightened or anxious, and that ironically enough includes learning (or not learning) new, more appropriate ways to behave.

American, totally agree. Very very very rarely does shouting actually lead to anything pot other than a stressed teacher with a sore throat

@OntheMat just as a piece of anecdotal loveliness.....

I worked with an infants teacher p1/2 in Scotland so ages between 4-7. She used music to move the children around the class. So say everyone is in their seats for literacy. She would set an alarm for 10 minutes or however long she wanted them to be working for and at the end of that ten minutes a piece of music would play that all the children knew meant they had to sit on the carpet. They could dance their way to the front and she'd compliment their moves. Then when it was time for gym, the Rocky theme would play and the knew it was time to change. It worked really beautifully for her. She was also a very calm, and loving presence in the classroom.

... She still is. I didn't mean to make that sound like she was dead. 😳

I've also definitely seen the rise in children picking and choosing who they want to behave for.

^ this. You've only got to observe a normally well behaved class when a supply teacher is in to see this. I've seen the most horrendous behaviour in this situation.