I'm so fed up with having to be so unkind to children to get them to learn

[OntheMat]

It's so bloody wearying. They have never heard the words no or wait. I cannot gently redirect because they do not listen until I'm speaking in such a strict, stern tone of voice I don't like myself.

Even worse than "I was just.." is the "No I wasn't " or "No I never". I'm sitting right next to you and looking at you. Yes you did.

I'm a TA and I have been in various years, some very challenging. What really annoys me with the kids coming up now is the laziness, complete disinterest and the impression that what they want to do/say is the most important things ever.

Their reception teacher didn’t seem to have the same issue. It’s a shame, she’s a nice woman and clearly wants to do her job well but she doesn’t seem to be good with children.

This is a very unfair thing to say. From Year 1 onwards, lessons become less of play and more structured and the same children from reception could start to resist and play up more. Absolutely not the blame of the Year 1 teacher and I wish this was not used so frequently by parents; ‘Well, they’re not a problem in other classes’....
They shouldn’t be a problem in any, ideally (SEND notwithstanding).

OP, I get you. Thank you for your hard work.

Their reception teacher didn’t seem to have the same issue. It’s a shame, she’s a nice woman and clearly wants to do her job well but she doesn’t seem to be good with children.

Yes, this annoyed me too. Very unfair. I've also definitely seen the rise in children picking and choosing who they want to behave for.

Yep, the parents know exactly what they would do if they were teaching.

Amazing how these same people look at you in horror when you suggest they actually put their money where their mouth is and actually go into teaching themselves. Then they might realise that the consistent bad behaviour of their child has a massive impact on the learning of the other 29 in the class.

Most people have no bloody idea what it's like to teach and yet because we've all been to school everyone thinks they can give advice on teaching.

Does my head in!

(Oooh this is very cathartic - thank you OP! )

I remember a tv programme a few years ago when they had cameras in a Primary school classroom and they were particularly looking at low level disruptive behaviour. They focussed on a few children and then let their parents watch them. There was one particular girl who had been constantly getting into trouble and her parents were convinced it wasn't fair, and she was definitely a follower not a leader so it wasn't her fault. I am sure there was some clever editing but they had their eyes opened!

I used to be a volunteer in my DS's class and the behaviour was awful from a number of children. They had no respect, they carried on chatting whilst the teacher was talking, they pinched and poked their neighbours. I spent most of my time sitting between children to try and stop them niggling each other. They were constantly moved round, I remember the teacher telling me there weren't enough corners in the room so she could separate them all out. I always thought a webcam would be good for parents to see just how their little darlings behaved. They were the same for all teachers. However, I would sometimes help in other classes in the school and the children were so beautifully behaved. I used to wish my DS had been born a year earlier or later.

There are definitely more 'difficult' year groups and always have been but overall behaviour is getting worse every year. And it is the low level disruption that is so underestimated but so exhausting. It's the back chat, the rudeness, the lack of respect, the horror on some children's faces when you reprimand them or say no because clearly 'no' is just not a word they hear or understand.

I wouldn't swap jobs with you, but I would say that nagging, shouting, teachers switch my children right off. They do however respond well to a firm but fair approach.

@ChidiAnnaKendrick she quite clearly wasn’t talking about your child. What makes you think she was??

@ChidiAnnaKendrick so what you are saying is that the majority of teachers do their job?

@Newyeardietstartstomorrow, and that's all well and good but what about all those children who don't respond to 'firm but fair'? That's always been my strategy - partly because shouting is pointless, doesn't work and just damages my voice. But I probably do come across as a nag some days - because I have to say the same thing again, and again, and again, and again, and sometimes naming about 20 children individually before they listen because obviously the rules don't apply to them unless I address them by name.

It's all well and good to tell teachers what works for your kids - but maybe parents need to talk more to their kids about what teachers need from them. My youngest doesn't always get his behaviour right and has been in trouble from time to time at school - but I have talked to him about the fact that teachers are only human too, they'll make mistakes, they'll have good days and bad days, there are 29 other kids in his class that need their needs met (some with quite severe SEN that have more challenging needs that need to be met more quickly) and so on.

It's time for a national conversation on this because it's not working how it is and I fear the teacher shortages that are heading our way - what will we do when we can't recruit good teachers anymore?

@ChidiAnnaKendrick who on earth are you talking to???

Oh and @ChidiAnnaKendrick

You’re the EXACT parent that we moan about. You’re the one that goes “my child is never in trouble, little Johnny is so wonderful at home, it simply must be your teaching that causes him to misbehave”

Ummm no hun. Your child is naughty is class and you don’t discipline.

I'm not shit or undertrained - and I'm not talking about SEN children. Most of the posters above have put the caveat that we're not talking about SEN children. This is a widespread and huge issue and low level disruptive behaviour from NT children is also having a knock on impact on the education and support we can offer SEN children so I'm not sure what your point is other than being offensive.

Similar story to @Halo1234

DS started secondary in September and for the first month or so moaned constantly about a particular teacher and how strict she was.

He was telling me yesterday she's one of his favourites and they have a right laugh in her class

He asked why she'd been so "miserable" (in his words) to begin with and I told him she was setting boundaries so they knew where they stood with her and showed her respect, now she can relax but knows if she does need to get stern they sit up and listen !

@chidi
You are being ridiculous and if you talk to the school with an attitude like this you'll never get far.

Oh what a delightful, educated and thought through response.

Who said it was your fault? I didn't. I've said more than once I wasn't talking about children with SEN. Who are you talking about?

Your language is awful. Is that how you communicate with teachers?? My head wouldn't let you on the premises!

And you all wash over it with ‘we’re not talking about SEN children.’ You are. You absolutely are. Because SEN is both chronically under diagnosed and also brushed under the carpet and ignored, and we’re told they’re ‘choosing’ to react badly to anxiety caused by their disability.

No. Actually secondary education just utterly fails children with SEN. Across the board.

Kids at our school blank out deny whatever you tell them off Ffor. Gas lighters in training.

"Thomas go spit out whatever you are eating", "I'm not eating" said whilst chewing and wrapper still in hand.

You think it’s teacher fault it’s not diagnosed? You think it’s our fault there isn’t support? You think it’s our fault we don’t have the time to always correctly respond to your child? You think it’s our fault he is progressing well? You think it’s our fault he isn’t getting 1-2-1 support?

News flash, it isn’t. You’re taking your anger out on the wrong people.