I'm so fed up with having to be so unkind to children to get them to learn

[OntheMat]

It's so bloody wearying. They have never heard the words no or wait. I cannot gently redirect because they do not listen until I'm speaking in such a strict, stern tone of voice I don't like myself.

why should the parents buses be paid for

Transport costs are paid for to remove the inequality to the family because their child is unable to attend their local school (in walking distance, no transport costs).

If a parent of a child CHOOSES to place them in a school 6 miles away, then they pay transport costs.

But if a child HAS to attend alternative provision, which is 6 miles away - the parent has no choice - that is the nearest school that can meet needs.

I can't believe I have to explain this

@panicandrun I completely agree!

What is depressing is having a child out of school due to school induced anxiety and trauma (diagnosed by CAMHS).

But after seeing the lack of understanding and empathy from some teachers on here, I can totally see how that happens .

Oh and the reason we are so exasperated about poor parenting is two fold

1. We see what a massive difference good/involved parenting makes , SEND or not.

2.it doesn't just affect their child. It affects staff and their peers as well, from having their education disrupted to being hurt to becoming anxious/school refusers themselves.

And the LEA doesn't give a shit when we say we can't accommodate x needs, or that putting a child in y class would be detrimental to the other 30 children due to the existing needs/circumstances.

@thegloaming he hasn’t been seen by cahms to be given a diagnosis of anything.

Teachers can be understanding and empathetic, it doesn’t mean they deserve to be at risk of assault just through going to work, not forgetting the other 29children in the class. Other professionals don’t expect to be at risk so why should we?

And @PanicAndRun I completely agree, the more positively involved the parents are with school the better the outcome. We have a nurture group with some children that have severe SEN and behaviour needs, where there is a positive relationship with school the kids end up successful, I regularly go into a local cafe where an ex student works to see how she is getting on, she had been a PEx student before coming to us, from the offset we had meetings with her aunt (who she lived with) who was really engaged with school and backed us up and it lead to her doing really well. On the other hand we’ve had kids that we’ve had to PEx because their behaviour puts staff and students at risk, in the majority of cases the parents had the attitude of “I will go up and tell that school” rather than sitting down to go through the behaviour and working together to improve it.

I have complained to a teacher in the past, unfortunately, who didn't control the class to the point that chairs were regularly thrown, and DD saying to me that she could hear and learn nothing. DD said the teacher didn't ever set homework, so I asked at parents evening if it was true (expecting to catch DD out!) and teacher agreed it was, on the basis the kids didn't complete it. To me, that's completely unacceptable, so I complained to her, and luckily DD did pass that GCSE.

My point is that if you have a tough class, crack on and go in tough if you need to, some of us parents support you!

And I've found it's true that SOME special needs kids could do with far better parental support. Some of the parents I've come across over the years are quite proud of not bothering. It doesn't make you judgemental to notice that.

Unsuitable school environment and lack of teacher understanding and training is the main cause of my DDs difficulties according to CAMHs PanicAndRun. They're arent blaming her school specifically, but the whole mainstream school culture as it is at the moment.

They agree I'm doing a great job

They also said they see a lot of children in a similar situation, and CAMHS spend a lot of time picking up the pieces due to education's failings.

Presumably the parents other 2 kids are fine so seems very harsh to blame the parents.
Also with a link between t1 diabetes and adhd makes the lack of support and services for the family even worse.
Have to say exclusion for throwing a pear is ridiculous, though obviously there were other incidents from when he was 3yo.
Many kids throw things. They know they shouldnt. But i dont think a 4/5yo would have know he would actually hit the teacher with it, nor understood that whilst softish could still hurt/injure. Though the intention for harm may have been there.

It is a big issue that some areas wont refer and wont diagnose under certain age groups. Whether the dc should be in mainstream is a different matter.

Allowing some kids to behave a certain way because of their SEN is obviously going to result in issues. Many kids will accept children are different with different needs but others will copy behaviour and challenge why they get in trouble.

Imo the new curriculum will be contributing to any recent deterioration in behaviour.
Other than that could be any reason and not necessarily parenting.

Many 4yo are just not ready for the school environment 5days a week. (Most countries dont do this). And then people wonder why they play up. They just dont want to do carpet time or phonics. They dont have patience to sit still if they know it already either.
Supposedly they have about a 4min attention span.
More time spent talking about classroom rules and socialisation.
And i would leave writing till at least yr 1 when they are all 5+.

Many kids presenting like adhd may actually have asthma/allergies etc. Lots of ear infections but nhs refuses to remove tonsils/adenoids. The most violent/worst behaved dc in the year had them removed finally around 4.5yo.

@thegloaming you seem to take my comments personally, which I apologise for. It is not my intention. I don't know you or your kid and what struggles you may have faced.

I'm just stating that at my school at least there is a problem with some of the parenting. There is a problem with behaviour. There is a problem with lack of support from some parents,some of them actively going against the school rules and ethos. There is a problem with some children being told there's nothing we can do to them, and if we do give consequences then we'll have to deal with the parents.

Some parents are bloody brilliant,some are ok, some are disruptive and detrimental to their own child's education and wellbeing and refuse to see/accept it. It's not even necessarily the parents of kids with SEND or SEMH .

I've also definitely seen the rise in children picking and choosing who they want to behave for.

I went to school in the late 70s/early 80s and even then there was a significant number of children who played up for certain teachers but wouldn't dare for others. This isn't new.

Surprisingly it was the strictest teacher, the ones that shouted and the ones that used the belt the most, that had less control of the class.

The ones that were respected by the pupils, rarely used the belt, or even shouted, they just engaged the pupils and made them fear disappointment from the teacher. I thought they had magical powers.

Ds(15) has very perceptively voiced similar about behaviour from early in his school years, it is rarely one or other, it is a combination of pupil behaviour and teacher ability.

Somewhere around P3-4 he had a teacher (she was quite young - compared to me! - maybe mid 20s) and he told me one day instead of walking around their little desks she walked over them. It was near parents evening so out of curiosity I asked her about it.

She said it was one of many tricks her retired teacher mum taught her which works wonders (although her take on it is probably against H&S!), if the class starts to lose concentration, do something different to get their attention, divert them from misbehaving and then get them back to the task. Very clever.

Teachers are onthe whole very poorly trained on SEN front, or any form of neuro diversity, and deary me it shows on here, as i said before Education is far too one size fits all, im sure every teacher on here is the ideal parent? Sorry if im being a cynic, ive had conversations this week about my sons considerable SPD and he will not wear ordinary tailored school trousers as they are 'hard trousers' and i have to resort to bribery to wear one of 3 pairs of boxers he will agree to wear, apparently thats 'disappointing' in regards to wearing other than synthetic joggers. does it affect his attainment, behaviour in class of course it bloody does can you imagine having an incurable condition where clothes hurt but you have to wear them? apparently just needs 'the right attitude' woeful, can't educate pork sadly

i would like to add i know some awesome teachers who aim to get parents on board but parents are not the enemy

Totally agree with you, OP! I work in Secondary and across the board, behaviour is terrible. And I'm so flipping tired of students saying 'that's against my human rights!' or 'you can't do that, it's against the law!'

Doesn't help that SLT are scared of the parents and have pathetic sanctions in place for the worst offenders...

I think the main difference in schools taken as a whole is the cohort and if you were to swop the children from a so called good school with a so called failing school ... you would soon find a reverse of the school's performance.

I think it is not so much the child's academic ability but their ability to behave and work hard ... some children could achieve much more but something holds them back and sadly it's prob (as a whole, excepting those with specific conditions) the family circumstances.

This is compounded by large class sizes and lack of resources, whereas in independent schools you prob still have some "right charmers" but by enlarge smaller classes, greater resources and the parents having mainly "paid" expect the little blighters to behave and do well.

Where the adults in families have not achieved academically themselves, often find (and obv exceptions), they do not realise you have to behave to enable you to work hard to achieve and they often seem to think it's unfair their child should behave as they are only young, or it is funny ... ... the pattern is then set for secondary.

It must be so heartening when a teacher or school manages to motivate a youngster who could go on to repeat this cycle, but actually achieves ... it's prob one of the things that keeps them going amongst all the daily grind.