Queen ? Camilla

[Idontpostmuch]

Why is Camilla always referred to as the Queen, when she's Queen Consort? Since the announcement of her title, I've never once heard consort mentioned, even by the BBC.

Slightly off topic…but many people are of the opinion that in omid scoobies accidental Dutch cockup …that it was Charles and Camilla..not Charles and Catherine who he was attempting to incriminate, particularly as this happened ( allegedly) before the queen died and Charles was still prince of wales!

This old chestnut.....
Because she IS The Queen.
Queen Alexandra, Queen Mary and Queen Elizabeth were all The Queen in their day, because they were married to the reigning Monarch.
Queen Camilla is also married to the reigning Monarch. They were therefore all also Queen Consort.
Queen Elizabeth II WAS the reigning Monarch, hence she was a Queen Regnant.
It's really not difficult.

It will be interesting to see what happens with the Princess of Wales title if and when there is a female heir apparent, now that the UK has adopted absolute primogeniture. There was serious consideration given to making Princess Elizabeth Princess of Wales in her own right when she came of age. But George VI rejected the notion on the basis that it was historically a title for the wife of a Prince of Wales and that Elizabeth was heir presumptive (although at that point there was slim to none chance of her being supplanted by a younger brother).

Contrast that with Spain where the heir (apparent or presumptive) is Prince/Princess of Asturias. Leonor is heir presumptive although it is highly unlikely that she would be displaced as heir by a younger brother.

I agree.

Its particularly interesting because in the LP’s issued after the primogeniture change it changed from the “eldest son of the eldest son of the Prince of Wales” being HRH Prince First Name to “all children of the eldest son of the Prince of Wales” being HRH Prince/Princess First Name. There as no edit to the other “male line” part of LP’s issuing HRH Prince/Princess titles to the children of a monarch.

This means the children of a future Queen will still not be automatically HRH Prince/Princess until their mother is Queen.

It was a very glaring omission in what was an excellent opportunity to sort it all for the future given that Charles had no grandchildren born yet.

I thought that it was that Queen Elizabeth said she didn’t want this. That she wanted the Queen to be called Queen Camilla.

The LPs of 2012 essentially added to the LPs of 1918. The LPs of 1918 are still otherwise in effect as to the titles and styles of children of the monarch and their male line descendants.

It's shorthand we all understand. Albert was Prince Consort to Victoria, but he's usually referred to as Prince Albert, not Albert, Prince Consort, which might be more fully accurate but is a bit of a mouthful.

Of all the problems facing the world today, you think this is an issue???

From the Hamlets.

That’s exactly what I mean.

The male line issue could have been easily sorted, but it was (for whatever reason) decided not to do so.

The 1917 LP’s could have been updated across the board to take into consideration a future daughter who is guaranteed to be Queen.

It was rather lazy and shortsighted not to do so imo. Just pushing the issue down the road again.

Queen Alexandra was the wife of King Edward VII
Queen Mary was the wife of King George V
Queen Elizabeth was the wife of King George VI

They were always referred to as the Queen, until Elizabeth became Queen Elizabeth the Queen Mother

It only sounds strange now because we were for so long used to Queen Elizabeth II

Okay, I'm clearer now on what you mean. For example, it was necessary for George VI to issue LPs when Princess Elizabeth was pregnant with Charles that her children would be HRH Prince/Princess although under the LPs of 1917, they would not be entitled to that until she was Queen. Had George VI not done that Charles would have been Earl of Merioneth (courtesy title) and Anne would have been Lady Anne, both titles from their father.

Yes exactly that.

That will still be the case if George’s first born is a girl. And would have been had Charlotte been born first.

Which is just daft and shortsighted. Given that the primogeniture change was being made it was the ideal time to set out how it was all going to go in future.

Oh dear.

No queens of Great Britain are ever officially referred to as Queen Consort.

The wife of King George VI was Queen Elizabeth. When her daughter became Queen Elizabeth II, she took the title "The Queen Mother" so that they weren't both Queen Elizabeth which would have been confusing.

The wife of King George V was Queen Mary. She wasn't referred to as Queen Consort because that's not what we do.

Likewise the wife of Edward VII was Queen Alexandra. Queen Alexandra Hospital in Portsmouth is not, you will note, called Queen Consort hospital.

The title of Queen belongs to the spouse of the king. It is Camilla's title. The thing we should do better is to give our female reigning monarchs a better title than Queen next time we have one.

Albert's case is an interesting one. He was a prince in his own right, but not of the UK. Victoria gave him the title of Prince Consort, but she did not make him a prince of the UK.

Philip's case is also interesting. As he approached marriage with Elizabeth, he was not a prince at all, having given up his Greek and Danish titles. George VI created him HRH Duke of Edinburgh when he married Elizabeth but did not make him a prince. In 1957, Elizabeth issued LPs making Philip a prince of the UK.

Blimey are people still harping on about this?

It’s as simple as Queen Consort is her constitutional status and Queen Camilla is the naming convention/styling. Just a as the current Princess of Wales will be and Queen Elizabeth/Mary and every other non regal queen have been.

if KCIII presdecases her, she will technically be the Dowager Queen Camilla but still referred to as Queen Camillla……that’s going to upset some.

It will be interesting to see what happens with the Princess of Wales title if and when there is a female heir apparent

Back in the time of Henry VIII Mary, his daughter with Catherine of Aragon, was never officially created Princess of Wales, but she was treated as if she was and sometimes referred to, by others, as PofW. For example she had her own establishment at Ludlow, which had been the residence of previous Princes of Wales.

Well, it's a bit like Lytham-St-Annes is almost always referred to as Lytham except in official documents.
Ditto St Annes on Sea, is called St Annes by pretty much everyone.

It's quicker and easier and everyone knows what you mean so no one cares.

Same as everyone cut across our lawn when going from the walkway to the main road as it's quicker and easier to get to the same position. I could try objecting, but it would be fighting a losing battle so I put in a path instead.

Surely it doesn't matter whether people ' accept' her or not. That's not what the Monarchy is. She married a man who became King because he was born. She is Queen Camilla. What is going to happen if Barbara from Watford doesn't "accept" her? Nothing. It makes no difference to them or anyone. Hell even if The Late Queen said ' I don't want her to be Queen' once she's dead it's tough titty. Her son is King and he can declare he wants his wife to be called Queen.

Behave

Camilla is a Queen Consort, as opposed to a Queen Regnent.

The Queen Mother was a Queen Consort.

The only reason the press kept calling Camilla Queen Consort for the first few weeks/months is because the longest reigning British Queen had just died and every time a headline said the Queen is doing x, everyone got confused about how the dead Queen was on an engagement.

Camilla was the Princess of Wales for decades but didn't use it in public because of Diana's association with the title. Camilla was still the Princess of Wales though.

So even if they had gone with the original suggestion of calling her Princess Consort she would still have been Queen Camilla just not using the title.

The second the late Queen Elizabeth died Camilla as the wife of a King became Queen Camilla.

In hindsight it was very much a mistake to say she’d be known as Princess Consort.

Charles was incredibly unpopular at the time anyway. And everyone knew he’d want her to be known as Queen alongside him as King.

As a long term PR move it was a poor one

The whole point of the late queen making a statement about backing Camilla becoming queen consort was to ensure she was going to be Queen to Charles' King .queen consort isn't lesser,s what every queen married to a king is!!

I disagree. Charles was playing the long game. I think his hope was that in time the public perception of Camilla and of him would improve to the point that she could be known as Queen. And I think that, to a large extent, that is what happened.

I think it was dishonest and manipulative of him.

Camilla has earned the respect of the public through her own efforts, by keeping her head down and doing the job. I think it would be wrong to mistake that for affection, or that people have “come around”.

Totally agree RitaIncognita. Working on issues around violence against women makes me really like her. Shes a good egg, is the Queen. Doing a great job of a role that she no doubt never wanted but took on for Charles’s sake. Glad she did.