Should Beatrice and Eugenie voluntarily give up their titles if they want any public respect ever again?

[Sweetiedarling7]

Just that really.
I think the only possible way forward for them is to choose to give up the princess thing, make a brief public statement in support of victims and to end their middle east business jaunts.

No.

1: They as adults went to visit and support Jeffery Epstein after his release from prison. Many other adults who did the same thing at the time are having to take accountability for their actions, so why should they not?

2: The Queen is dead. Her relationship to B&E has no bearing on anything.

3: A 35 and 37 year old are not a pair of girls.

Why twist what people have said?

Your argument was that she is an Olympian and being part of the RF had nothing to do with it.

When of course it had.

No one said she wasn't talented. She had talent plus the advantages that being rich plus being royalty brings.

Bit of a simplistic take, don't you think?

As I stated - I'm no royalist. I'd happily see the back of them but in fairness they have scaled back hugely and it's only to be expected that they are going to protect their status.

If we are ever to rid ourselves of them, it will take the government to make it so.

They're not going to just go away.

As for a toxic institution? I'd say the blame for the Andrew situation sits pretty firmly with the entitlement he was allowed via his Mother and a society that did, and still does, protect rich white men from the consequences of their actions. That said, the family toxicity clearly still prevails, if the harry & William situation is anything to go by.

Anyway, my point about the 'loving family' is more about their need to provide support for two women who are facing huge public shame due to absolutely no fault of their own.

On point 1, who are you thinking of? I didn't know there were any people who'd accompanied their nasty groomer parents to Epstein Island at 18 and 20 who'd come to public attention, but I fully admit I haven't waded into the files.

Why do you want two women to give up their lives because their father is abhorrent. They didn't choose him. Would you be saying the same if it was Charles, would you think William should give up everything?

It's just making women pay for a man's crimes, again.

I meant other adults (e.g. anyone over eighteen) who associated with Epstein after 2008 are having to take accountability for that. Mandelson for one.

The question is about them giving up their lives. It is about them giving up their royal titles and role in the British Royal Family. Who happen to represent this nation as a constitutional monarchy.

They can go skiing, live in Portugal and hang out with their mother in the Middle East. They just can’t promote themselves as members of the British royal family to make money or get freebies.

They should not have titles of state because they don’t do anything for the state and I don’t think anyone wants them to.

How would they be giving up their lives?

They are wealthy, married with little children, fabulous houses, and lead a very nice life

They can do all that without being called a princess

But they've spent their lives being princess, that's a massive part of who they are.

We can debate the merits of the monarchy all day, personally I'd prefer it didn't exist. But it does, and they're part of it. Why should that change just because their Dad is a fuckwit?

Exactly. Charles as our current monarch and William as our future monarch have not properly distanced themselves from him.

Even in the statement removing his title, Charles said “notwithstanding the fact he continues to deny the allegations against him”, followed by a bland “thoughts and sympathies for victims” line. Neither of them have said they no longer wish to have anything to do with him, even though it’s obvious William considers him to be unpleasant. Why hasn’t he made a statement that Andrew isn’t welcome in his life?

The answer is simple. They can’t just do such a thing. They are strictly controlled by their press offices. Saying anything would put the monarchy more at risk. It will be interesting to see what happens in the event Andrew is found guilty of something but until then, no-one in the Royal Family is at liberty to make any statement.

Neither Beatrice or Eugenie receive any money from the Sovereign Grant.

Beatrice IS actually a Counsellor of State though - a senior member of the royal family to whom the monarch can delegate royal functions, if required. This is not the same as being a 'working royal' however.

(AMW also used to be, but I don't know if they've managed to remove that yet?)

Their parents knowingly let them socialise with convicted paedophiles whilst they were themselves children. In most other families this could trigger social services involvement for failing to protect the children.
I hope nothing happened to these 2 whilst they were younger.
I feel sorry for them

Are they though? Mandelson “for one” is about the only one. Other than Maxwell, who else is taking any accountability at all?

Can't people see that all this focus on Sarah, Beatrice and Eugenie is all just a diversionary tactic to keep the discussion away from the real perpetrators of these horrific sex-trafficking crimes?

The 'should they drop their titles' question is all over media rags like the Express and the Daily Mail at the moment. Why? Probably because the media moguls behind those would prefer to keep the discussion focused on the 'awful women' (remember, they all hate us...) rather than dig further into the files to see which other British men might be implicated.

Beatrice and Eugenie visiting Epstein with their mother, while awful, isn't the REAL story we should be investigating folks.
Meanwhile the men at the top will be rubbing their hands in glee when they see the women turning on each other. What fun!

And happily scrounged £80k to give Ferguson a birthday bash, accepted diamond necklaces from an Arab oligarch, multiple freebie flights to exotic destinations paid for by Epstein and others.
Innocent my arse.
Out for whatever they could get, and still are.

As there is no clear evidence they have done anything wrong (that I am aware of) then no - not as a direct result of the behaviour of their father.

I do think it is time that there was a review of prince/princess titles in general though…something like only the children of those in the directly descending senior line to have title prince/princess and not if they choose (or their conduct deems them unsuitable) not to become working royals.

It seems faintly silly that Eugenie and Beatrice, who are both 35+, are still actively using those titles but aren’t working royals. Ditto Harry now and his children. Just quietly stop using the titles will do for now.

Ideally, everyone would relinquish (or lose) their royal, noble, and aristocratic titles, but not because of Epstein.

Re B & E: there's some evidence of poor judgement and questionable ethics, but not as far as we know actual illegality. (That might be true for Sarah F as well, but in her case there's evidence that she has explicitly lied to the public and the media to cover up her continuing relationship with Epstein, which raises questions about what else she knew.) At this stage, as long as the authorities keep investigating and as long as B & E cooperate with investigations as needed, I'm not going to bay for their blood. The public have a role in keeping the pressure on for a full investigation, but I'm not sure pure speculation helps.

When talking about someone who wrote a book accusing people of being entitled, where he went to school is wholly relevant. Fettes College is the epitome of entitlement. The guy is full of his own self importance.

I’ve no doubt it took him 5 years, the monotonous detail he goes in to is testament to that. It can be summarised as “rich couple spent too much money”. I was waiting for the bombshell that never came. Drivel is the perfect word for it.

Accusing me of trying to discredit the book gives my opinion far more weight than it deserves.

Sorry you found the book boring.

I think it was important in its detail

I fear for the future of the monarchy, William will be incredibly isolated without his brother and cousins, the few people who have been through the same strange upbringing as him.

There is a lot of people across the pond who should be taking accountability, including the one running the country. But we don't have any jurisdiction to bring that about do we?

We can only deal with our own people who knowingly celebrated Epstein 's release and continued to associate with him. And like it or not, that includes Beatrice and Eugenie.

Would Zara and Mike get all the sponsorships and freebies if they were Joan and Tommy from the flats? That's what privilege brings, and even though Zara does not have a title, she has the connections and association of being a member of the RF. Nothing untrue about that is there?

I agree. It's not do much who's done what but looking at the family in general. Child mortality ( especially amongst the super rich) is very low. The Royals don't go into battle any more. They are cosseted all their lives. We don't need all these spare princes and princesses running around for no reason. Let them do whatever they want. If you don't want Royal hangers on using titles for profit take the titles away. They have to work and make a living.

Do any of the titled members of the RF actually have real jobs, you know where they pay PAYE or self assessment, pay NI, and commute or WFH a couple of days a week? I'm sure there must be a few decent grafters amongst them, and I'm not talking about working in a shop for the Summer hols or interning for a connected friend either.

Fair play to those who do, but they might be in a minority!