Andrew - continuing his effort to end the Monarchy

[TheHaplessWit]

Another new story on Andrew today. Photo's have emerged showing that on Epstein's desk, there were emails regarding Epstein paying debts owed by Andrew/Sarah to staff:

https://people.com/epstein-had-emails-staff-ex-prince-andrew-sarah-ferguson-new-photos-show-11880419

Why on Earth was a Prince of England having his staff paid by a sex trafficker?
Doesn't seem "too honourable" to me.

I understand what you are saying about Andrew’s low intrinsic value but his activities have opened up a Pandora’s box of
serious issues that affect the entire institution and can’t now just be stuffed in the back of a cupboard somewhere!

How the RF have failed to police themselves effectively

How they have maintained a cover up when one of their member allegedly committed crimes

How little we know about the paybacks and mutual favours that members of the RF are engaged in relating to supposed charity work

How they are prepared to mix with very dubious characters who do not have the UK’s best interests at heart, in order to elicit cash

The power and influence they potentially wield over supposedly independent civil servants and even potentially the police

The lack of trust that the above issues have engendered in an institution that our taxes partially support

Etc!

Obviously I should have said PR managers, not PE managers, below! 😆

That is all speculation. And really this is my larger point beyond Andrew specifically.

Clarity about how the constitutional monarchy works in the 21st century would be welcome but, going by the way the government refused to do anything about Andrew's titles and kept saying it was a matter for the palace, I doubt there is any political will to make things more transparent. As things stand everyone in the system can hide behind everyone else and in doing so no one gets called to account and nothing changes.

I doubt this attempt to ignore the issue will work though. It might have been possible to hide behind the deference accorded the late Queen when she was alive but now, lots of questions to answer for politicians, civil servants and those responsible for how the institution works, as well as the King.

I remain a constitutional monarchist, whilst there is no clear alternative at least, but I want the system to work which it clearly isn't.

I certainly agree with your point about deference and burying their heads in the sand not cutting it this time.

And I agree that accountability is shot in so many of our institutions,

What do you mean about speculation though?

Have you read Entitled by Lownie? it’s all laid out there in detail. Facts twice verified and then checked again by lawyers.

I would encourage anyone who
hasn’t read the book to do so.

It covers so much more than you can possibly imagine,

It’s a nightmare for the palace PR team - they are at a point where something needs to be said/done but they’ve got to be careful on statements because there’s potentially so much more to come out.

And for Charles it’s not just his brother that’s involved it’s his own government ministers. And he can’t be seen to be interfering or commenting on that.

At the minimum it needs to be clear that the palace is not going to impede any investigation - whether that’s an official statement at this point or a well placed ‘leak’.

It's a problem that's been decades in the making. I agree that the palace need to make it clear that Andrew is on his own and that they will not interfere with any investigation. I wonder though if part of the problem is that as an institution it has always found that no comment works if the individual isn't a working royal so is finding it hard to adjust to a new reality?

When It Hits the Fan was interesting on this.

And for Charles it’s not just his brother that’s involved it’s his own government ministers. And he can’t be seen to be interfering or commenting on that.

This is the difficulty.

I suspect the most he would be advised to say, alongside a repeat of their Majesties' previous support for the victims, would be that they will cooperate with any investigation.

Good to know @MrsLeonFarrell - haven't listened to this week's episode yet

I said "speculation" because your points in the post seemed very general, referring to the RF, royals etc. However if they were based on specific examples in Entitled then I see the word I used was incorrect.

It's very difficult when the government are being equally useless and flabby. I wish we had people with backbone in power.

For those of us who haven’t read Lownie could you provide a brief outline of everything Andrew is accused of doing? I’m a bit lost!

So
-poor Charles can’t do more because it’s his brother
-Andrew is too stupid so it’s not really his fault
-It’s the politicians fault
-Charles can’t interfere with politics - (except when he’s meddling behind the scenes to keep himself and William from taxes and laws they don’t like of course )

Any more attempts to excuse and downplay the Windsors and their abuses ?

It is impossible to list all that, it would take hours. Do read the book. Libraries have it I understand.

Very well put

Agree.

The structure works best when both sides take their responsibilities seriously.

There are a couple of threads here on it that cover quite a few of the revelations

How little we know about the paybacks and mutual favours that members of the RF are engaged in relating to supposed charity work

Slightly O/T but this aspect has really caught my attention today.

A charity W is patron of accepted a large donation from JE apparently made in response to a suggestion from Richard Branson who was closely aligned with it and who has also been named in the Epstein files. Cue lots of frothing in the press about W being named in the files even though there's no suggestion he's done anything wrong.

What is odd though is that one arm of this charity won an Earthshot Prize category in 2023. That's out of thousands of applications and a top 150 later whittled down to a top 15.

I have no idea what it all might mean or how it's come about but it seems mighty peculiar.

IF there is an appetite for change among the RF, the current AMW crisis is the perfect opportunity for those with the appetite to get stuck in.

"In the light of recent developments, it has been decided to bring forward plans to slim down/rationalise/ restructure..."

I hope W is pushing hard.

It really is quite staggering how far Epstein's tentacles reached isn't it. Is there anyone with wealth and/or power who didn't have dealings with him?

At this point though I believe they need to be doing more than making changes behind the scenes. Changes need to be explained and made clear to the public, which isn't how the late Queen's court ran things but this is a social media age and we need to see things.

I'm increasingly of the belief that William will take the throne but George won't. I have no evidence for this it's just speculation that William will see his reign as a time to transition from monarchy to whatever the public wants to take its place. (Off topic for this thread though)

The current ‘ignore it all and keep glad-handing the peasants at visits’ attitude by KC3 and his mistress is reminiscent of what the Queen was accused of when she stayed at Balmoral after Diana died. In that case however I had some sympathy with her as she was supporting young boys who had lost their mother. KC3 needs to get his head out of the sand and read the room.

As for Lownie, he said in an interview this week that the paperback is likely to included even more than he initially thought he could legally put in, including the York daughters’ Middle Eastern dealings. I’m waiting for that version to come out before I read it (but I did see him at a live thingy before Christmas so am fairly across the York horrors).

A charity W is patron of accepted a large donation from JE apparently made in response to a suggestion from Richard Branson who was closely aligned with it and who has also been named in the Epstein files. Cue lots of frothing in the press about W being named in the files even though there's no suggestion he's done anything wrong.

Re the story of 'William's charity receiving money from Epstein'

The link is here: https://archive.ph/DeKH7

William was not a patron of WildAid, and hasn't been that I can discover. He was an ambassador - made a video in 2013, and carried out some engagements in 2014 and 2015. He had nothing to do with the organisation of the charity or any donations.

William has been a patron of Tusk since 2005, and set up his own wildlife charity (United for Wildlife) through his Royal Foundation in 2014.

It’s about 300 pages long and it’s packed with information.

I would wait until the pb comes out on 21st May to borrow or buy it.

Lots of information that Lownie couldn’t put in the hb for legal reasons or because the publisher didn’t believe him, will now appear in the pb, having been verified by the Epstein file publications.

I agree with both points.

Slimming down, restructuring finances, getting rid of the titles, ditching the Order of the Garter parade and other daft stuff and explaining what they're doing and why.

Like you, I get a feeling that W will be the architect of its demise. That, while he will step up and play the role, he is aware that the RF is an anachronism and will want his grandchildren to have far more of a choice in what they do with their lives, and far less scrutiny, than he and his brother had.
Typo edit

William was not a patron of WildAid, and hasn't been that I can discover. He was an ambassador - made a video in 2013, and carried out some engagements in 2014 and 2015.

Thanks. You are correct although the roles do seem to involve some similarities and it's quite hard to find a comprehensive list of W's patronages.

I'm really more intrigued about the whys and wherefores of a charity he's been actively involved with walking away with one of the headline prizes awarded by his own initiative.

I'm increasingly of the belief that William will take the throne but George won't.

I agree.

I've said before I hope and think W will be our last monarch although I think it would have been wiser for C3 to arrange the curtain drawing especially as W has shown so little enthusiasm for the role over the years.