Fergie Epstein email

[elprup]

Yet more damaging revelations for the Yorks. How did the Daily Mail manage to get hold of the email I wonder?

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-15118055/Fergie-Epstein-lies-exposed-bombshell-email-Andrew.html

I said this too, it makes me think she’s being blackmailed, considering they don’t even pay their bills, the money must be going somewhere.

Delurking to make the following points:

1. It is possible to be appalled by both the repulsive Yorks and the awful Sussexes and to not equate what one set have done with what the others have. Nor does it mean you think the behaviour of the Yorks is equivalent to that of the Sussexes. They are dreadful people, to different extents and for different reasons. It's not a zero sum game or a footy match where you cheer for your chosen team.
2. This is a thread about the Yorks. Wish people would stop dragging the Sussexes into it, lord knows there are plenty of other threads on them. (Hope that's not taken as "policing the thread" just a plea to stick to the topic in hand)
3. Suggest anyone interested read Andrew Lownie's excellent, eye popping book. It's very well researched and written. He's doing lots of interviews about it, suggest you check out Tom Sykes chat with him about this subject.theroyalist.substack.com/p/live-with-tom-sykes-5f3? Tom Sykes and Andrew Lownie on Sarah Ferguson emails
4. There's much, much, MUCH worse to come, apparently. Charles is unwell, which may explain his strange reluctance to do something, anything about the Yorks, but it's no excuse. Lownie and Sykes both think he's very badly advised. Perhaps it's just his nature and TBH if you were ill with cancer it would probably not be the first thing on your agenda. Still, unwise in the extreme to let it persist, if you ask me. Someone needs to get a grip fast.
5. William appears to get it and any monarchist would be best advised to put their trust in him and Catherine, but one does wonder about the continued viability of the Monarchy. Until, of course, one contemplates the alternative: President Farage (or Johnson) Suspect if that prospect greeted the Great British Public, there'd be renewed enthusiasm for an institution which, despite its many evident flaws, has still served the UK well over the years. BUT someone has to curtail the financial stuff at the very least.

If my brother tried that on me I'd be saying

"RECOLLECTIONS DIFFER"

One alternative would be to subject themselves to proper scrutiny, stop hiding behind ' voluntary' tax payments and deciding not to publish their tax returns, to stop hoarding houses and to cut down on Royal personnel and staff so they dont cost so much, for Parliament to discuss them so things are out in the open. Especially when they demand exemptions from legislation. They need to justify why they want it.

I suspect Camilla has a very good idea, as does William, convincing Charles to bite the bullet is another matter.

I think it’s OK to include other royals in the thread - @ArmchairTourist - by comparison - which is what I did once - eg what they have in common, what’s different. So yep, I do think you’re policing the thread.

Charles is unwell, which may explain his strange reluctance to do something, anything about the Yorks, but it's no excuse

What can he do about the Yorks?

Force Andrew to move to a smaller house? Does that create more problems than it solves?

Ask them to stay away from family funerals?

I think part of the problem is that because of the nature of the Royals, so many family events that would usually be private are necessarily carried out in public.

Guess they could get inept workmen with diggers to inadvertently cut through water and energy supplies . I don't know they have a lease god knows who's paying the rent, but as long as it's paid what can you do.

I don’t see Charles can really do anything about them, I suppose he could try and evict them but that would only move them to a smaller property on the Windsor Estate and then that would leave Royal Lodge empty, I suppose at the moment it is being maintained (to a point) and heated, now that William and Catherine are moving to Forest Lodge I can’t see them wanting it, especially with its associations. Charles could remove the Prince title if he so wishes, the Dukedom would have to go through parliament to be removed but I just cannot see him going down that road. At this stage all he can really do is ban the pair of them at all family events that can be seen by the public and he will just have to put up with them living at RL unless they breach the terms of the lease, what else can he do?

the pair of them have no social awareness or emotional intelligence at all,

This!

Not only not keeping a low profile but actually drawing attention to themselves.

He really does think that he's something doesn't he?

Isn't the measure of a man purportedly his actions/the company he keeps?!

I don't think KC can do anything about them other than keep them at the back at formal occasions. They blundered so badly at the Duchess of Kent's funeral.

But, in all likelihood, what Andrew and Sarah have done is not really that much worse than any or all of the other Royals at some time or other in recent history. And they know it. And Charles knows it. And William knows it.

Sarah has had so many horrendously cringeworthy embarrassing moments (the Sheikh, the toe sucking!!) - I reckon she'll ride this one out too. All will be forgotten in a few years.

If my brother tried that on me I'd be saying
"RECOLLECTIONS DIFFER"

Which might work, @justasking111, just so long as Andrew doesn't have receipts

How TF have the ruling family of the country got to a stage where the secrets a member of the family could reveal are worse than him consorting with paedophiles and spies and getting decidedly dodgy characters to pay off their debts?

I can't answer that, @LidlAmaretto, except to say that perhaps the gambits about "The Queen was just a sweet old biddy who loved us all" and "Charles is a bit forgetful but well meaning on the whole" were rather too successful

Now it turns out that neither were prepared to impose any decency on various family members, and that they're just as grasping as monarchs of old, things are apt to be disappointing - but then that's what you get for setting so much store by folk you can't get rid of

Until, of course, one contemplates the alternative: President Farage (or Johnson)

This pro-monarchy argument is put forward regularly but overlooks the fact an inept President can be removed by the electorate either after their term ends or following a vote of no confidence from their colleagues.

As it is we're stuck with a bunch (not just one) of rather uninspiring toffs who happen to have hit the jackpot via an accident of birth and can't ever be ousted.

We have an unelected Head Of State and an unelected Upper House. The FPTP voting system means huge swathes of the electorate are not represented by their vote. It’s not much of a democracy when you really look at it.

Yes, the pair of them were appalling but given A's long standing form for grabbing centre stage whenever he gets the chance it does make me wonder why this entirely predictable debacle wasn't foreseen and plans made to keep him on a very short leash.

Doesn't anyone with practical sense advise these people? Perhaps there's a secret attempt to sabotage them from the inside, because it doesn't make sense otherwise.

I totallyagree and I have said this lots of times
Either the courtiers, advisers and PR people are old, stupid or thick or they just don't care
They would have known Andrew and fergie would push that way to the front, they led the whole royal party into church for a memorial service a year or so ago.
Why doesn't someone, anyone, have the intelligence to think forward and pre-empt this sort of thing? It happens time and time again
They have enough advisors, PR people, personal private secretaries and the like, working for them, yet no one seems to have a brain cell between them

I suspect they advise and the advice gets ignored. Which begs the question what are they doing there and why are we either paying for so many people who are either useless or ignored.

It’s the same situation as when the formal bullying complaint was made against Meghan isn’t it? The Palace team are not empowered to take action against one of the Royal Family members themselves and so they just do nothing, it seems….

I also think this is a family problem, not a royal family problem. How many families do you know that can effectively control the behaviour of adult children who are not minded to listen to advice or persuasion? I can’t say I’m aware of many, but I know plenty of parents and siblings horrified by the behaviour of their direct relations. And cutting the financial support carries with it the risk of more and more unacceptable behaviours…

I have investigated enough poor conduct on my time to have any illusions of how some people behave, and no family is immune from that. The status and priilege they enjoy I imagine makes it worse (and that’s not unique to them, either).

Either the courtiers, advisers and PR people are old, stupid or thick or they just don't care

Not necessarily, @jumpingthehighjump; they can advise, but it's hardly their fault if that advice is ignored - though they'll very likely get the blame when a RF member wants to claim they "didn't know"

I don't imagine either that some of the worst members will share details with such people ... too much risk of it all coming tumbling out for a start, so they may hope to sort things out privately instead

And here we are ...

This article really paints William in a different light. He brought in a new manager in 2025, read The Guardian article, and is making genuine changes. He is also supposedly paying the full amount of tax although he won't disclose his taxes.

Above is a great “compare and contrast” I’ve just watched (without the Daily Mail paywall). Sheds a-lot of light I think.

Spot on. And the whips keep the MPs in line.

Well having read a couple of books. They don't bloody listen when they are advised, the queen being the exception. But she had Philip to run things past.

An interesting book I picked up from the point of view of the palace machine and the pecking order of the courtiers was Patrick Jephson biography of Diana. But it was how it all worked, like a gliding swan on the surface furious paddling underneath.

You can see why Harry Meghan struggled without an army working worldwide on their behalf like herding cats as my mother would say

Absolutely this^^

That’s the whole point in a nutshell!

And why do people always use Boris Johnson of Farage as an example?

Why not Lady Hale or Tim Peake?