Opinions may Vary . A genuine question about why Meghan and Harry seem to attract such differing views.

[BasiliskStare]

I post this more in hope than experience but I would be really interested in a proper discussion about those who are fans or supporters of them , those who aren't and indeed ( of which there are many ) , those who are indifferent.

So - I'll start. There was an interesting post on another thread which said M&H come over as David and Goliath , standing up against "the Institution" - my paraphrase.

No spitting , no fighting , mind the furniture 😂

I won't blather on about the role of constitutional monarchy - which I support - here, but of course that's the most important part of it!

I don't think it's necessarily a dying institution. It's certainly an evolving institution, and it's in an unusual position just now. The longest-reigning monarch in modern history (and a very much loved and respected figure, worldwide) has died and her now elderly and maybe not as charismatic son has succeeded. I like KC, but having a new monarch in their mid 70s isn't the same as getting a beautiful young queen, as it was in 1952. It's not his fault and his illness hasn't helped general morale. Charles was rumoured to have intentions to slim things down, and he has to some extent, but I think the points mentioned above mean that he will perhaps just get on with the status quo and leave big changes to William.

There are frequent jibes at W and C for being lazy. I honestly haven't been observing their work rate, so can't judge this, but of course they've had illness to deal with too - as well as their young children, which it's clear they're determined to bring up in a much more 'hands-on' way than previous generations of royals, and good for them. I suspect William has been impressed by the sheer normality and the healthy dynamic of the middle-class Middletons, and want that for his own children.

I think William WILL make big changes, perhaps to a more Scandinavian model, when he succeeds - partly because I don't think he wants to lead the life of his father and grandmother. Elizabeth II believed in the sacred calling of a monarch and would never have abdicated. But by contrast, Beatrix of the Netherlands believes that monarchy, if it's to survive, must constantly refresh itself and therefore she abdicated in favour of her son when she reached 'retirement age'. Her son will probably do the same. It's a different approach, and I can see the virture in it. I think William might well learn from this. What we expect of the RF now, in the days of social media, unlimited press scrutiny and the lack of deference, is too much for any normal human being to sustain, especially for life.

Sorry that was so long!

I'll add Gayle King and ABC, Oprah Winfrey's Harpo, Ted Sarandos's Netflix and Brian Robbins' Paramount to the positive media the Sussexes get. All hugely influential and powerful. Plus any network that hangs on the words of Governor Gavin Newsom, one of their most vocal supporters.

I fon’t think I have ever seen the MSM be “fawning” about M&H. Neutral or negative is certainly the position of the British press.

And we also had a poster here just the other day who identified as a Squaddie

We have a press that is predicated in propping up the monarchy, and a monarchy which is very good at using the press to manipulate and build support for itself - even at the expense of some of its own members.

I don't agree! The press do anything which sells newspapers and they hound the royals just as they do any public figure. The age of deference is over.

Some newspapers may editorially support the monarchy but it doesn't stop them running sensational and embarrassing stories about the royals, just as the tabloids do.

I don't think they are comparable to David & Goliath. They did not 'take on' or stand up to the institution; they just had a big tantrum because didn't get what they wanted (half in, half out). So they left the UK, publicly slated PH's family members, the men in grey suits and the UK press. Some of which was fair and likely cathartic for them but some of which has caused loss of trust from family members.

I can't bring myself to not feel for PH, though. I am old enough to remember his parents wedding etc. and although I am sure he is very spoiled and headstrong, he has suffered. I suspect that a lot of people in the UK might feel the same way about him and would ultimately welcome him back to the UK and the RF (especially with some good PR).

I find the whole thing fascinating. I think MM probably can be manipulative. But they appear happy and now have their own family. I imagine there is regret on his part that he was so outspoken when they left the UK but probably not on hers.

No, you just scrolled on by any number fawning Newsweek, People etc articles when they were linked here on this board. You just forgot the completely one sided BBC interview Harry just gave after the RAVEC appeal. You didn't question why there was no critical or balanced reporting applied to a BBC item on H&M, on a rooftop gallery with parents apparently bereaved because of SM. Briony Gordon at the Telegraph and now the DM? Totally neutral.

I'm not getting into some sort of guessing game with you.

You're simply proving my point that the Sussexes' 'defenders' are more interested in slagging off their fellow posters than saying just what it is about Harry and Meghan that is so worthy of admiration.

The poster beginning with t? I assumed she was taking the piss….

Why are certain posters so desperate for ‘fans’ to convince them that H&M have positive qualities or why they like them? You’ve obviously come to a negative opinion after reading/watching everything out there in the public domain. If you are satisfied with that opinion who cares what others think?
As posters can no doubt tell I have an overall positive view of H&M but I don’t ask or need anyone to validate it.

What I find much more interesting is that through being such polarising figures they created an emotional response in people whether positive or negative. People generally don’t hate or love what doesn’t matter to them (or post regularly about it on the internet). So they have managed to break through apathy, one of the hardest things to do as a public figure in a crowded world.

I would go as far as to say they need the haters/detractors in order to have fiercely supportive fans. The more fans see opposition, the more they will support, like cheering on the underdog.
This is where I believe the tabloid campaign has actually helped them, especially on the business side. It created more haters in tabloid readers (who will post negatively online) but also more fiercely supportive fans (who will buy their products).

No..some Daily Mail articles are very fawning eg written by Liz Jones and Bryony Gordon.

There is no such thing as "the media" (sic).
Different outlets have different editorial stances and the Sussexes give information to various magazines and tabloids. eg the Daily Mail.

What is "xocer" please?

They didn’t to begin with.
the positive press they received was massive, it was the same for Catherine, Diana, Fergy and Sophie. They have good press, the bad press, then generally level out at reasonable press

Look at the UK headlines reporting their wedding. Very positive indeed.

What about the tabloid readers of the Daily Mail who get positive stuff about them, or all the magazines they give information to? They use the press. They need it. They headlines are important to them.

But Catherine doesn’t do controversial things.

She doesn’t sell her own or her husband’s family quarrels for dollars or write tell-all memoirs about them.

Apols, Frosty - that was a reply to is the solution.

has it only been 5 years since they left? It feels so much longer.

As awful as it is Meghan needed to ride out the bad press and they’d have come out the other side. It’s how the British press work. On the whole she was welcomed with open arms, there was a bit of a backlash and she seemed to go “fuck this shit, I’m off”. It would have come back round, with kids and humility and the shit hot palace PR. It always does.

assuming she wanted to stay of course

I’m sure their headlines are important to them. It’s a human thing to want to be liked and portrayed positively.
The power is in knowing not everyone will like you. If everyone likes you, you likely don’t stand for anything and are pretty bland.
I mean I don’t like everyone and don’t expect everyone to like me.

I think they've proven to be such unreliable narrators and so negative about the UK it's hard to like them. They do seem to court publicity then moan about it.

Hopefully they are happy - but constant digs at RF and even UK - doesn't give that impresion. They'd be better of ignored by media but that's clearly not what they want but they are since New York car chase more than a bit of a joke.

As to why others like them persumably they find something to admire - though I think that's getting harder - though Meghan does get unfairly blamed being a woman marrying into RF so perhaps they feel it's unfair but they don't help themsleves half the time.

Fine - OK, no-one is obliged to explain their admiration. But then let’s call a stop to the predictable whining about those who criticise them.

That’s the point of this thread. As someone put it yesterday “Piss, or get off the pot!”😂

Put another way: don’t bother posting if you’re not prepared to actually engage with the discussion. And I really AM interested in why they’re liked by some people…it just seems like pulling teeth trying to get an answer!

Maybe there’s something in that? Some
people like their royals controversial? I can’t remember the last time Catherine even wore a controversial frock!

I think this too, but I hate it.

The idea that she (or anyone else in public life) should be expected to go through this dance with in particular the British press. Big them up then rip them down. If they survive and know their place then they may be left alone.

It's horrible and it reeks of old boys clubs, private schools and cult. Invite them in with promises of being something or someone special. Then put them through hell to see if they have the mettle to survive. if they pass the tests finally let them join.