Confessions of a Female Flounder part 2

[foreverblowingbubbless]

I've embarrassed for Meghan saying that her arranging takeaway food on a plate is the same thing as what Figs Heather Hasson has done 😬

if I had to guess & I just don't believe QEII , the now KC and Camilla and others would not have utterly greeted him and mingled with with him perfectly and politely

Yes, because its what they do, they’re experts at doing just that, mixing with people from all walks of life.

As to why lie? Why does TM Jr say anything? The man is odious and attention seeking, a trait enjoyed by all the Markles. He's said things and changed his mind/backtracked many times. There was a time right at the beginning of this mess when he used to allude to his father traveling to Thailand to do unspeakable things. Later, his dad was father of the decade. Who knows what the truth is with these people?

Agree on PC & C behaving graciously. He needed to be over for at least a month to acclimatise though & I do wonder if privately at least they’d altogether approve.

Basing that from interviews he’s given where he’s sounded bigoted, gauche & generally ill informed although clearly a loving father & very skilled at previous job. They’d be weary of anyone being a possible liability with any easily exploitable character flaws down track.

I think he’s surprisingly gauche.... he’s unlikely to have impressed or been well received by PC/Camilla/Her Maj.

The late Queen dealt with far worse than 'gauche' over the course of her reign. When you think of some of the people she was required to meet, and even entertain at BP, I'm sure she would have received TM graciously, and no-one would have known her private opinion.

TM's brother, M's uncle, was a former member of the US Navy and a former diplomat. He would presumably have known how to behave, but he was too unwell to attend, apparently. M never took H to meet him, either.

When you think of some of the people she was required to meet, and even entertain at BP, I'm sure she would have received TM graciously, and no-one would have known her private opinion.

Absolutely. The RF are used to dealing with some very difficult (and powerful) people. We'll never know if TM had been treated differently, properly introduced to Harry, taken care of before the wedding etc, perhaps some money to make his life more comfortable, whether he'd have done a tell all expose. I have doubts he would.

TM Snr one of 3 brothers all accomplished in own way, the other brother high up in Church from memory. Whilst the late Queen was gracious to all possibly not extending to marrying in to Prince of Realm. Their preferred type of commoners the Middletons, they’d be PLUs for most part.

Doria possesses inherent grace, class, intelligence & poise

I don’t really understand this fawning over Doria, how anyone can come to that conclusion based on a snippet of her sat in church baffles me.

I don't think you can say that it was the wider RF's responsibility to have got TM over here and integrated, or that they screwed up. Harry and Meghan were adults more than capable of meeting him at his own home, never mind getting him to the UK, but they didn't.
Imagine how, in the Oprah interview or in Spare, suggestions to bring TM to the UK earlier would have been portrayed. Harry would have seen it as interfering, daring to try to 'vet' the family he'd chosen for himself, poisoning TM against them, blah, blah, blah.
The thing is that I really believe efforts were made to try to help Meghan to understand her role, be aware of protocol and become part of the firm as well as the family. But they were not well received, and that dunce, Harry, was too busy thinking he'd finally outdone his brother and got the top prize that he shut down any perceived criticisms and that hasn't helped either of them. I daresay he was absolutely terrified of losing Meghan, as he obviously adores her, seeing her as his saviour and the only one who has validated his feelings (and fed his paranoia).

@User14March " Whilst the late Queen was gracious to all possibly not extending to marrying in to Prince of Realm." Slightly tongue in cheek but not totally - Harry was marrying Meghan not her father. Uncle Gary Middleton was part of the family & he got into the abbey. I suspect Q. Elizabeth would just have preferred to see M inviting her family. & M has said very much so in the past her father did a lot for her. I think he would have been welcomed by her Prince Philip , Charles , Camilla et al very graciously. & I am sure if M had wanted he could have been flown over for some decompression time. I would hate to think she was ashamed of him , or another thing I have heard , he wouldn't play along with the M worked her way through college , poor upbringing etc. Better to have that in private at a wedding breakfast than him feeling hard done to and going to the press. I do get your point about PLU but I think the late Queen let all of that stuff wash over her. Although I suspect she approved of Kate as a steady young woman.

Some of them are terrible snobs in private but agree on Queen & yes ‘steady’ definitely a worthy attribute, esp given what she’d been through with kids.

Honestly don't think eg the Middletons and the Brooksbanks really are PLU for the RF although there is obviously more in common in terms of schools, pursuits etc. I don't think the Shands or the Fergusons were ether, but possibly a bit closer. Even Diana's grandmother, Lady Fermoy, said that they "are not like us" and she was an aristocrat and a courtier.

I think it's changing and it must still be a challenge to join/become adjacent to such a rarified and enclosed sort of world. However while Harry really, really didn't prepare Meghan (IMO), I'm quite certain TM would have been treated very well for the short time he'd have been around, as it seems Doria was.

ETA as missed main point. There is no PLU for the royals because they are in such an unusual, even unique position. Well, other Royals, possibly

As others have said , H and M were advised by the late Queen to fly over to speak to TM . They said no. Suggestions about sending aides to support him were refused .
The bald fact is that TM no longer fitted into Meghan’s life.

I totally agree but I fear I could see TM in any stint over here being horribly manipulated by the likes of Piers M & ilk. He seems so unwise/ ill advised in some of what he’s said to date. Maybe though he’s now simply bitter & broken & if he’d come over & felt comfortable & welcomed all would have been well. As you say he’d have been treated graciously.

If we take M at her word I have no idea why the plan was to bring him over when he’d barely had a chance to recuperate from jet lag let alone much else:

I would hate to think she was ashamed of him

Theres some intersting passages in Spare about Thomas Markle. Harry, who had never met him in person of course, talks about how once the media onslaught of Thomas started following their engagement announcement, he began contacting Meghan daily, with his pride wounded by something that press had done. “Every day there was another humiliating photo in the paper. Thomas Markle buying a new loo. Thomas Markle buying a six pack. Thomas Markle with his belly hanging over his belt”.

Meanwhile, here are a couple of the photos Thomas Markle himself arranged to have taken for publication during this time. It makes me wonder just who it was that thought the images of him were ”humiliating”…

How do you know some of them are terrible snobs in private? Who are the “some”? Have you experienced their snobbery first hand?

Can someone tell me what PLU stands for?

I’ve worked it out, people like us!

That’s what I mean though, what wisdom have you seen, and what do you mean by graceful? What have you seen that demonstrates either of these qualities? All I see is a woman who chooses to live a private life, much like the rest of us.

@Serenster , My fault but not sure I understand your post - genuinely haven't quite got the gist. Maybe TM was embarrassed about photos given his daughter was marrying into the BRF, maybe M embarrassed as thought he didn't quite fit her image. But both Fergie and Diana walked down the aisle with (objectively) overweight fathers who were hardly Milan catwalk material - so on that point she should not have been embarrassed at all. I veer towards with a bit of looking after / support TM could have gone through the wedding , which of course was entirely outside his experience , probably perfectly well. But who knows.

Agreed. I think she is the only person Meghan listens to, and is the one who taught Meghan to put herself first at all times. I suspect she, Doria, learned those skills the hard way, as an African American woman without great education or money. She is certainly intelligent enough not to ever speak to a journo.

Meghan has turned what her mom taught her into something else entirely having coupled it with her exposure to rich white folk courtesy of her dad funding her private Catholic school and sorority university experience.

People like us.

What a horrible way to talk about his father in law.

Your post made me look back at Spare re: TM. Very interesting.

H says ‘her father would not be able to withstand the psychological pressures that came with being stalked by the press’.

’Be on guard Daddy about anyone who pretends to be your best friend’ M adds.

M then the kicker (!) M effectively tells H her father is rather mentally unwell & unstable you might surmise: ‘he’d often had plywood nailed over his windows even when living in LA LONG before Meg started dating me’ H concludes TM is a ‘complicated man’. After all who randomly nails plywood across windows? It’s NOT only the press to blame.

H concludes he’s a liar too with good supporting evidence ‘he’d taken part in all this fakery maybe to make some money or maybe they had some leverage on him’.

Air NZ flight booked & paid for by M. H tells us. TM Snr says no as he has other things to do. On face of it who wants an unstable, nefarious flake at the wedding from H’s perspective?

This is a bit off topic, but finally reading the Palace Papers (I'm always behind)

Apparently one previous occupant of Nott Cott was Crawfie. It was her grace and favour on retirement until The Book.

I’m not sure there was a lot the family could do though if Harry and Meghan were coming up with excuses as to why they couldn’t arrange a meeting. The distance was obviously one very convenient one as also would be the busy schedule of the royals. Hadn’t Charles encouraged them to contact Meghan’s father? And wasn’t everyone waking on eggshells trying not to upset Harry? I’m pretty sure they would have been uneasy at the situation but Harry was determined that he would go ahead. Hindsight is a wonderful thing but at the time I’m sure they all just hoped for the best and that it would all work out for Harry’s sake. He clearly didn’t want anyone to tell himthere was a possibility that it might all go pear shaped