All the focus on H & M - where's the outrage against Andrew? (Season 2)

[Samcro]

Thread 2 of what is an interesting topic.

What is the solution to the Andrew problem? He could have all his titles removed by Government and KC3, even the Prince title could be removed and he could become plain old Andrew Mountbatten-Windsor, get the bailiffs in to chuck him out of Royal Lodge and move him to Nottingham Cottage? I know most want him in Strangeways but that is pretty unlikely so what is the solution?

Thanksd @Samcro

I will link the article again about the book because it's worth reading

https://www.thebookseller.com/rights/no-holds-barred-prince-andrew-and-fergie-biography-to-be-published-by-william-collins

If there is evidence of wrongdoing on the part of Andrew and Sarah Ferguson, it's only right that a light should be shone on it. I feel sorry for the King having to deal with the fallout though. He must be worried in case it reflects badly on other individuals in the RF, and of course any scandal that is revealed will reflect badly on the monarchy.

Maybe it will give him the leverage to kick them out of Royal Lodge.

I'm kind of glad it's happening after the Queen's death, but at the same time, she's left what looks like being one hell of a mess for Charles to deal with, if she knew any of what was going on.

mainecoon... I agree with your post. QE2 left Charles with this problem and she made the problem to be honest. She did know some of what was going on, she spoke about her 'concerns' back when he was a Trade Envoy. Trouble is, she didn't do anything about it.

She was probably really torn! Maybe she'd softened a bit in her later years because she otherwise put duty first, and if she had put Andrew back in his box years ago, he might not be where he is now! She didn't do him any favours.

I am sure Charles is ripping at this less than 3 years into his reign! Is his brother's potential downfall going to be one of the defining moments of his reign and legacy?

Thanks @Samcro

the kindle edition for pre order here - I had put on the first thread but no one will mind me posting here https://www.amazon.co.uk/Entitled-Rise-Fall-House-York-ebook/dp/B0F49YZ9QD/ref=mpsa13?crid=3UAPZ7IFI4NSK&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.v0igHYDAJK9XtnwrxknqCwK5KKQXAqmRs1sqdjAfKjSH1lFkqJwFO-eyH5HOtFQKE3IQ5N0hD9pgVv3g5LWw6UgCWbU-N-7zV2HnoVgsKqspChsdeODd9FfxpDpJ.T9x6T04VnRlr0W9P-7sZhx2v5n2w0bXpdawREUv2GHc&dibtag=se&keywords=andrew+lownie+prince+andrew&qid=1744828594&sprefix=andrew+lownie%2Caps%2C82&sr=8-3

the hardback seems to not be there but I’ll look Again later as I posted it earlier.

EDIT: I’m officially dumb you just go across from kindle, to audio, to hardback 🙈

Interesting... I don't think so, as far as it impacting Charles. Because the worst went on when QE2 was still alive, so I think people realise Charles has just inherited the problem. I do think there is no love lost between the two of them, (Charles and Andrew) whereas Andrew was supposedly favourite child of QE2. But agree, she didn't do him any favours, and to be honest, harsh thought it sounds, we are where we are because of her not dealing with it back then.
Just my opinion of course

You can see from interactions that Charles and Anne are or at least appear to be close. I don’t see that with the other siblings. Or I’ve just missed it.

On this, we can agree!

There's 12 years between Charles and Andrew and of course Charles would have been away at school. They didn't really grow up together.

Charles and Anne really only had each other when they were little.

And I doubt Edward is close to Andrew somehow!

You don't get that impression. Edward comes across as more arty, more considered and more introverted. Andrew is more extroverted, arrogant and full of self-importance. On the face of it, they don't seem to have a lot in common really.

Thanks for this.

It promises to be incendiary 🙏

I really hope that in particular it untangles the links between Fergie and Epstein which often seem to get forgotten 😡

I think Eddie and Anne are generally really, really careful about being seen to associate with their disgraced bro ever since being found to have had him trot along on a shooting jolly but I think all of them (C3 included) at least tolerate him if not actively support.

See various public facing attendances at what are carefully billed as private family events, dressing up parties and the 'family celebration' coro dinner.

They probably want to support him in the background. I'm assuming they have some sympathy for the position he has put himself in, and who knows, maybe they worry about his mental health. Wouldn't anyone's MH be in the absolute toilet after all the scandal and gossip, with the prospect of more revelations to come?

I'm assuming they have some sympathy for the position he has put himself in

Retaining sympathy with an accused sex offender who's gone on to duck their day in court while paying someone they've never met to make it all go away is quite reprehensible. IMO.

Oh come off it, it's far more complex than that! They probably believe him when he says he didn't do it. Why do you insist in making it so black and white? Nothing ever is!

Even the families of murderers must feel conflicted. Love the sinner, hate the sin.

So if your brother was in this situation you would drop him instantly like a knotless thread?

Thank you for that article @TulipTiptoer - I've preordered the Kindle version.Out earlier than that article says, which I am happy about. I have heard (and this will be my last mention of H&M on this thread - but this is to a point- in a US interview about the York book , Lownie being asked whether he has plans for a book about H&M. His answer was No. His reason being that he does not mix in their circles and could bring no proper evidence which would justify a new book. The reason I think this is relevant is that in his book about the Windsors and the Mountbattens he also faced not being able access documents he thought would be relevant (and indeed the one about Guy Burgess ) . But he does know enough people , and is a respected enough historian that people will speak to him so he can do interviews , exchange letters etc with people who will give salient and credible information. And whatever documents he can access he will - he is a proper historical biographer. So I have every hope that will be as near as can be got to the facts re the Yorks, given his declined FOI requests.

Anyway in the interim I shall be trying to catch up on the Chinese spy thing and following Royal Lodge finances as and when. And other things brought up on this thread

Thanks @Samcro

WTA just saw @CathyorClaire 's post re Fergie's tanglements with Epstein. And specifically he lent her supposedly £15,000 to pay off a debt. How stupid to get in debt to such a chap for what between them must have been a trivial amount of money. Stupidity doesn't even come close.

I asked at the start of the thread, what is the solution to the Andrew problem?

There is a big difference to supporting him in private, to supporting him in public.
by being seen driving him around, allowing him to play dress up at the coronation for instance. Is a step to far.

I agree. His mother’s funeral ok. The coronation - he shouldn’t have been there imo.

Reading that review, it sounds as though AL has found a few meaty morsels to chew over!

“Though the Duke and Duchess of York have merited extensive media coverage in the past, no one, until now, has looked deeply into their business and charitable activities. It is quite a story."

In my opinion, Andrew has smartly (probably only smart thing he has done in years) kept somewhat out of sight and under the radar. H and M ooze desperation and try to get attention with everything they do. She more than he, but still...

it's far more complex than that!

Can you explain the complexities?

Why do you insist in making it so black and white?

For starters he's never co-operated with the authorities in the way he promised in Newsnight.

No, he shouldn't have been at the coronation, nor should he have spoken out in public when his mother died.

What has that got to do with his family life?

They are hardly going to make him co-operate are they?

If you can't see the difficulties in separating the private out from the public, then nothing I can say will explain it to you.

You didn't answer my question about what you would do if it was your brother?