All the focus on H & M - where's the outrage against Andrew? (Season 2)

[Samcro]

Thread 2 of what is an interesting topic.

Of course they will @TulipTiptoerbut what you said is exactly why it is difficult - the fact that they are the RF. It's not as easy as " oh just don't invite Uncle Harry he's a wanker". There's procedures and protocols which would have to be addressed. As for the greater British public I doubt very many of them think very often about the RF but more about the current Government who have a more direct effect on their day to day lives - if even that.

Or perhaps - just don't invite Uncle Andrew, he's a wanker.

We don't know what goes on behind closed doors. What the wider family feel about him... I would be interested to know what his other siblings think. Charles we can guess at perhaps because he has more exposure as King... but Edward and Anne, who knows.

Yes I agree we don't know but bet they think he's a tosser.

That reminds me of a clip (possibly from the 1960's doc) where a bratty 10 or so year old Andrew keeps climbing a ladder set up for decorating the Christmas tree, Anne reprimands him and he's rude as to her while Mummy just lets it all wash over her. I saw another piece in a paper a few years back where he was really rude to a young adult Charles but I can't now find it.

Bet they had more names than 'tosser' for him even then 😆

What British National in their right mind would hand themselves over to the FBI in America, would you? and as far as I’m aware no crime has been committed that means Andrew has to be extradited to the US.

Andrew has always been an odious twat!

To be honest this is a fair point. No way would I submit myself willingly to the FBI whether I had something to hide or not! But I’d be very interested to know what information they have not that we will ever find out. I suspect it’s in a lot of powerful men’s interests that it remains buried.

I wonder how different the Epstein/Newsnight/Andrew story would have been during this Trump term. Trump was a buddy of Epstein, but then of course denied he was.

Obviously not in times past. I was thinking more of today’s moderate Kings, for example, the Swedish royal family and the Nobel prize. A link with finer things.

Obviously the reality is far from that!

To be fair to Charles he has got a good understanding of rural issues.

On a serious note though, I do think someone who is head of the C of E should try and set an example. It would be awkward if Charles had to read the parable of the prodigal son on a televised occasion.

It’s an interesting PR question overall actually. How much do you subscribe to the “aloof, head in sand, never explain” model of monarchy eg the late QEII, or do you show a few of your flaws and become more relatable? Not an easy line to tread in 2025.

I think the mystique has definitely evaporated in recent times.

Tbh I think with ever-present cameras and the intense scrutiny they are under, you have to be credible full stop, as PR consultants can only do so much.

As a Republican, I obviously think the credibility gap is too large to breach. Is it credible to announce a plan to eradicate homelessness, when you are on the brink of inheriting approximately fourteen or so stately residences or estates?

Or to spout eco principles when you are heating Windsor Castle. Sandringham, Balmoral, Buckingham Palace and St James Palace, Kensington Palace, to name a few?

I think even Monarchists might agree that in this day and age, the RF are an increasing PR challenge.

@Enoughisenough689

I think you make some very valid points. Never complain never explain really does not work in this day and age. Because they do complain but don't explain! And with the advent of social media, it is increasingly difficult for the Institution to expect a positive view as everything they do can be scrutinised and commented upon. However, it's something they use increasingly, particularly Kate and William. Do we actually have to see them when they can put out a fancy pants video every now and again?!
Personally, I think the men in grey, PR aides, courtiers (whatever you like to call them) get a lot wrong a lot of the time.

@Enoughisenough689 the buildings would have to be heated whether they were owned by the state or the RF.

I don’t blame Charles for not engaging any more with Harry (if that is the case) as he’s not very discrete (?).

Yes, agree, I think the men in grey were terribly behind the times when handling sm. They didn’t quite understand the immediacy of it for a long time imho.

It’s interesting that William had taken a more aloof approach. It leaves him open to accusations of not doing much, so it’s a bit of a risk? But they are going to have to narrow the remit considerably when he takes over presumably? Maybe it’s in preparation for that?

Obviously I’d be delighted for him if the remit could diminish to nothing in my lifetime and he could go and live a private, luxury life somewhere with his family, and more importantly, his dc don’t have to suffer preposterous levels of scrutiny which are very damaging to the psyche imho, and have reached practically unmanageable levels.

There was a time when you could read the news and it be fairly rational and believable. That world no longer exists.

The royal dc may be given a period of grace at school and university but can you imagine when they start out as young adults? I’d be terrible daunted if I were their parents.

Oh yes, on the children. I think of it as a form of abuse of children. (Disclaimer, I am not levelling this at William and Kate, they are probably the best parents there has honestly ever been within the royal family). It's the whole scenario of your life mapped out for you, no choices to speak of, particularly for George. Why the Monarchy can't adopt the more modern practices of some european royal houses, I do not know. Perhaps William might try.

And just imagine George's and Louis's girlfriends/wives. We all know what happens with female married ins.

Yes very true about the buildings. But they could be used for public good?

With the billions they have and the influence, at their disposal, I truly thought that KC, with William’s support, would take one of the estates and turn it in to a very small but very specialist and pioneering health centre for a niche group of patients?

I know these things have to be funded in to perpetuity and thought through very carefully and the RF doesn’t usually fund projects directly. But I really thought he would break the mould and do something radical to signal change.

Maybe that’s a totally unfair expectation though given his age and his health atm.

I certainly don’t wish him any further stress and hope he recovers well.

I couldn’t agree more! I shudder at the thought of it all.

With the billions they have and the influence, at their disposal, I truly thought that KC, with William’s support, would take one of the estates and turn it in to a very small but very specialist and pioneering health centre for a niche group of patients?

I really like this idea.

I could think of nothing worse than being a royal.

W's work with organizations which address being homeless has been praised by those leading these organizations. Through W, Lloyds bank is lending £50 million to homelessness charities with a proven track record, but which still find it hard to source debt capital.

The government could have backstopped lending to the charities via a guarantee at any time, but this was not done. So I am not sure why there is such an angry narrative...if being wealthy and owning more than one home bars someone from getting involved in homelessness charities...well then...what is the alternative?

And on the environmental front, anyone who has visited the Earthshot website and taken an honest look would walk away impressed. Notpla (seaweed packaging to replace plastic) and Mukuru Clean Stoves (lower air pollution, more fuel efficient) are transformative. Neither the UK nor the Kenyan governments invested in these entrepreneurs, so absent Earthshot as a venture capital accelerator, these companies would have remained as ideas and dreams.

I am not understanding the Republican narrative on W, who is an unproblematic heir...and maybe therein lies the problem. It seems imperative to assassinate W's character and reduce his popularity to undermine the monarchy, regardless of how worthy his Earthshot and Homewards initiatives are. I have greater respect for Republicans who evaluate the individual fairly, even though they do not agree with the political system.

I am not sure how the parable of the prodigal son would embarrass KC3. It is not a long tale really (Luke 15: v11–32). I have summarised below:

-Younger son tells his dad that he's taking too long to die, youngblood wants his inheritance now!
-Sad dad agrees
-Younger son hares off to foreign lands, finds lots of new "friends" with whom to party, but as the money disappears so do new "friends"
-Younger son with no talent or prospects descends into dire poverty and is reduced to working as unskilled labor at a pig farm and eating slop with the pigs
-Younger son has epiphany...I will go home, say sorry to my dad for being a brat, and throw myself on Dad's mercy. Surely Dad will take pity and at least give me a servant's job even if he does not restore me as a son.
-Younger son goes home, gives prepared speech but is embraced by Dad who is so delighted younger son has come home he throws a party
-But the party is missing a key guest...older son who is furious with younger son's behavior.
-Dad goes outside to plead with older son on behalf of younger son and story ends on this cliffhanger.

It is quite interesting how this parable of the prodigal son has been twisted to say relatives should forgive anything, when clearly, big brother is not in a forgiving mood. And the story makes it quite clear that Dad did not chase the prodigal...Dad waited until life had knocked sense into the prodigal's thick head and the prodigal chose to return.

As the Hollywood "friends" melt away and bills pile up and a reckoning comes due on Sentebale and possibly other charities (C-suite turnover at Invictus is a big red flag for any auditor), life is starting to kick said prodigal, but we've got a way from H demanding an apology to H having the pigsty epiphany that he owes a massive apology to his family of origin for being a massive brat.

@TulipTiptoer
It's the whole scenario of your life mapped out for you, no choices to speak of, particularly for George. Why the Monarchy can't adopt the more modern practices of some european royal houses, I do not know. Perhaps William might try.

Can you say how the European Royal houses adopt a more modern approach? below are details of the Princess of Orange who will be Queen and Head of State, how is their approach different to ours?

• Early life and Public Appearances:
• Princess Catharina-Amalia, the heir to the Dutch throne, was kept out of the public eye for the most part during her childhood, with exceptions for photo sessions and specific events like King's Day.

• Focus on Education:
• She has been focused on her university studies and other academic commitments.
• First Solo Engagement:
• Her first solo royal engagement was at the age of 21, when she christened the Combat Support Ship "Den Helder" in Vlissingen. This marked a milestone in her royal life, as she publicly carried out a royal duty without her parents.
• Future Preparation:
• As she prepares for her future role as head of state, she is expected to participate in events like Prinsjesdag and state visits, in addition to her academic commitments.
• Growing Public Role:
• While previously kept out of the public eye, she is gradually taking on a more prominent role in the royal family and is participating in engagements that are important to her family and the Netherlands.

You have quoted one Royal. My post is not about George by the way, he is an heir after all

In the Netherlands, the King's brother works. His wife works. His elder brother also worked, until tragedy befell him. Royals in the netherlands do not receive allowances.
In Sweden, the husband of the King's youngest child opted out of any title so he could carry on working as a financier. His wife does work with non profit organisations and their children will be expected to work. And of course the Swedish King removed five of his GC from the royal list, they will all work.

And you have made a blanket statement that European Royals bring up their heirs in a more modern way, how about you back your claim up? How are they doing it so much better than William and Kate in bringing up George?

And your post which prompted mine said particularly for George

I thought this thread was about Andrew ? And the new book?

In the Netherlands, the King's brother works. His wife works. His elder brother also worked, until tragedy befell him. Royals in the netherlands do not receive allowances.

Well compared to the United Kingdom their realm is utterly tiny, I imagine it would need no more than they have currently so not surprised the brother and his wife are not on the payroll.

The King of the Netherlands is the head of state for four countries: The Netherlands, Aruba, Curaçao, and Sint Maarten.These four countries make up the Kingdom of the Netherlands

Ha! Yes apologies, I just don’t like throwaway statements declared as fact so will leave it there.