Is there another couple in the world like The Sussexes?

[veraswaistcoat]

I was musing last night about this aspect - they had the world at their feet. Despite what Sussex Supporters like to suggest most people in the UK nodded their heads " yes it was lovely Harry was getting married finally" . I had never heard of the bride myself as I don't watch American tv shows of that ilk. She was black or biracial? It didn't even enter my head what colour she was initially and then as coverage started it didn't make one iota of difference one way or the other. I recall the day of the wedding - it was sunny and the pubs were full of royal cheer broadcasting the wedding.

And then it all started to where we are today.

Are there any other couples in the world who have gone through such a downfall? Is this a feature of the social media arena today?
We see P Diddy and Blake Lively and others exposed now through SM.
You can't count the Duke and Duchess of Windsor in this category as they were always unpopular.

Can you think of any examples of people who have fallen so spectacularly?

I know people say " they live in California, they have money blah blah" but their reputation is one that most people would not want.

Is it purely because of their seeming complaining and sense of entitlement ? I mean you don't see the real philanthropists in this way - in fact you rarely hear about them and what they do.

Who said it had to be more important than the relationship?

I've lived abroad and travelled extensively, it's never been that difficult to remember local cultures and norms, some were strange however it's only respectful to follow them

It isn't at all important to me that men and women eat separately. It was important to my host community.

So I did it.

It’s a lack of basic manners . Most people would know this. I was stunned at the way Trump behaved with the Queen too. Both T and M ignoramuses .

Well we don’t know that he didn’t however it is known that the late Queen suggested that Sophie take Meghan under her wing but she ( Meghan) declined as she did with at least 2 other people . She was also given a dossier with advice and had lots of staff who certainly would have wanted Meghan to behave appropriately.

It's all so black and white in these responses. She didn't walk behind the Queen in this instance so that means she didn't want to follow protocol at all and hadn't listened to any instruction. As opposed to what's far more likely that she'd tried to learn a ton of stuff, loads that she followed and the extrapolation is daft.

I'd try to follow the rules of another culture as best I could but I'd not beat myself up for not getting it right every time.

And in the case of the RF when that "culture" is based on nothing but historical privilege then yes I'd probably work less hard at remembering all of the rules than I would if I were living in another country.

That's the problem with someone who is arrogant, they just won't be told

Something fine examples on here

I would also tend to hang back and look for cues about where I should walk/ stand, and allow myself to be guided into place.

Sometimes embarrassingly prominent, as an honoured guest despite my opinion being I had done nothing to deserve the honour. Sometimes on the sidelines because women didn't take centre stage - not something that fits my values.

But when you are in a new culture/ situation it is respectful to comply. After a few years working in one particular community I began to strike out a little in some situations to politely express my values while also acknowledging those of the wider community. By then I had established mutually respectful relationships and had a sense of how I could balance my personal opinions with being respectful of the community in which I worked.

All excellent ideas on how to behave. Still doesn't explain why this one incident is being discussed now is so significant and apparently symbolic of all her appalling failings.

I have been to countries where I have had to make sure my shoulders are covered. I have been in meetings where I have had to eat separately. I have had to remove my shoes before entering a building. I have eaten food that has been cooked for me that if I had a choice I wouldn’t.

It’s common courtesy and respect and most people I know would do that. The only reason you wouldn’t do that was if you were the sort of person that was either lazy, ignorant, wanted to stand out or thought they knew better (or all four). It’s definitely not a good look and certainly wouldn’t be found in the manual ‘how to win friends and influence people’.

I think the car thing on her first event with the Queen is just not worth talking about, the Queen clearly tells her to go first, I don't think Meghan did anything wrong, Yes her hair was a bit of a mess on a windy day, but she looked absolutely lovely and it seems the Queen did enjoy having Meghan accompany her.

But the culture is entwined with the privilege. Meghan had a massively expensive wedding, huge clothes allowance etc only because her husband's grandmother was the hereditary head of state. Along with the privileges there are some long standing expectations about behaviour.

Again, yes, obviously. And still more examples of the "all these things should ne done and not doing it in this one instance clearly means she didn't care about any of it and is a terrible person".

One doesn't have to get it all correct all the time. And not getting it right all the time doesn't mean you're not trying.

I mean maybe she is a terrible person who was deliberately giving the Queen a big fuck-off gesture. Who knows? Making a bit of an understandable mistake seems far more likely. Especially when that "mistake" is probably not noticeable by many people

She seems quite keen to follow the privilege of having a title, doesn't seem to have a problem remembering that

I’m not really specifically talking about this one event. She was offered specific help and guidance on protocols which she rebuffed. She wanted to ‘hit the ground running’ and ‘what Meghan wants Meghan gets’ were PH words. I don’t think she was really that interested in tradition and protocols (see Netflix dying swan curtsy), she thought she would be the person who could ‘modernise’ the RF. That was never going to fly.

she thought she would be the person who could ‘modernise’ the RF. That was never going to fly.
Far from an unsound idea in principal though.

And teaching others to call her Ma'am and curtsey to her.

She rejected the help of Lady Hussey, Sophie and, most egregiously, (after rejecting these two), the Queen's equerry, Lieutenant Colonel Nana Kofi Twumasi-Ankrah, because she didn't like the optics of his skin colour.

Oh yes, not only did she reject the Queens equerry, according to her PR mouthpiece Omid Scobe, she was 'insulted'.

According to Omid Scobie’s book “Endgame,” the palace suggested that the late monarch’s Ghanaian-born household cavalry officer, Lt. Col. Nana Kofi Twumasi-Ankrah, step in to help Markle, who is biracial, adjust to her new royal duties.
“Though a charming and intelligent man, it stood out like a sore thumb to Meghan and her friends,” Scobie writes.
Markle and her friends were “insulted,” per the US Sun, when the palace suggested “the Queen’s attendant” assist her — which Scobie notes was likely due to a “lack of Black or other non-white staff” in “relevant senior roles.

The principal is fine, the person who decided unilaterally to take that up, not so much!

I have always thought she wanted to latch on to Catherine so that they would be seen as equals .

Oh that is very clear, since one of Scobie's other claims is that Catherine (mother of 3 under 5, including a newborn) ignored MM's "cries for help". Because, you know, her mental health advocate with his own therapist on speed dial husband was too useless to help. And the pre and post natal mental health package that forms part of the maternity package from the Portland Hospital wasn't quite as good as stalking demanding help from the SIL you've already insulted repeatedly, and who you had already decided was a racist.

I don't know why the heck she thought Catherine was under any obligation to assist her! It's almost as if she wanted her to kow-tow to her, even though Catherine is more senior?

I'd like to have seen it if the tables were turned and Catherine had had the same expectation of Meghan when she was the mother of two (not three) very young children! Meghan would have been furious!

I'm willing to bet that Catherine wasn't even aware of Meghan's "cries for help", which her useless husband apparently couldn't deal with!

Meghan tried to be the leech but on that occasion it didn't work.

They are entirely unique, which I think is why I find them so fascinating from a PR point of view, even though it's a bit of a busman's holiday for me, working in the industry. But yes, I'd say they're unique, and their downfall says a lot about the hollowness and superficiality of our social media obsessed world; in a way it is emblematic of it. I think this because:

1. When Megxit happened, they were arguably the most famous couple in the world, and expectations of what they would do next were incredibly high. This is because the couple themselves were explicitly promising something unheard of: they were going to take on old colonialist, racist shibboleths and institutions, and replace them with something progressive, empathetic and forward-looking. This is quite the promise, and in the early 2020s, against the backdrop of BLM and at the height of progressive politics, many hoped they could actually do it.
2. However, H&M made a promise to change the world whilst, frankly, lacking the power, intellect and expertise to do so. This is a man of little intelligence who's prominent through an accident of birth; and a mediocre, moderately successful actress. As such, they simply do not have the networks, social & political capital, experience or intellectual heft to be able to effect the enormous revolutionary change they were promising. But the fame bubble puffed up around them made it temporarily seem as if they could. This is why I say they are emblematic of the superficiality of our social media culture - in which the 'seem' is often mistaken for reality (see also: trans ideology, in which declaring oneself to be something is believed to make it so - perhaps the purest example of magical thinking in our post-religious world).
3. However, 'seems' is not the same as 'is', and I would say the collapse of progressive postmodernist political hegemony is a result of electorates knowing this and making their knowledge felt at the ballot box. And H&M are perfect emblems of this collapse of postmodernist progressivism: as their stated ideals and aims collided more and more with reality, so their utter amateurishness, viciousness and vacuousness became more and more apparent. They simply could not produce any worthy content which anyone could feel entertained or uplifted by (their stated aims). In the same way, postmodernist progressivism is also, when tested against reality, utterly devoid of substance.

TLDR: H&M are unique, because their superficial appearance was uniquely at odds with their fundamental lack of substance. Most other very very famous people have substantial achievements to their name. And in a way H&M also symbolise the collapse of postmodernist progressivist ideals, which also were tested against reality and found wanting. As a symbol of vacuity, they are utterly unique and that's why, I think, their downfall is so instructive to us hoi polloi at large.

There's definitely a book in here somewhere, looking back on public discourse from 2016 - 2024, and how progressivism and its totems (H&M, famous trans people, Kamala Harris) were tested against reality and discarded by disgusted electorates. I might write it one day, when I've finally sold my business and have time. LOL what am I talking about someone'll probably already have done it by then lol

👏👏 great post @GiveMeSpanakopita

There's definitely a book in here somewhere, looking back on public discourse from 2016 - 2024, and how progressivism and its totems (H&M, famous trans people, Kamala Harris) were tested against reality and discarded by disgusted electorates.

So true
Write it😊

Before you write it I suggest you find out what postmodernism means. It's best to start with the modernism and go on from there.