Do you think as Camilla as the queen ?

[Rainbow321]

Hear me out , I have no problem with Camilla and never thought I would never see her as ( way back when ) as Charles wife when they married , my opinion,was they married and can rightly call herself as Duchess.
However , what I don't understand that when Queen Elizabeth was alive , her husband , Prince Phillip was always known as just that and never seen / addressed as King . Why is Camilla our queen when Phillip was never our king ? I'm confused .

OK history lesson Queen Victoria inherited the crown from her Uncle. Her mother was never Queen. Was Duchess of Kent.
So who was ever formally titled Queen Elizabeth The Queen Mother or similar ?

No. We were watching the Remembrance Parade last weekend and the announcer said and the Queen isn't present as she is unwell. DS straight away said no she isn't she died. We'll catch up but at the moment if you say the Queen my first thought is still Elizabeth II.

I agree, the word mother is a descriptor like consort or regnant. So it defines the 'type' of queen. It's not The Queen's Mother (possessive) it's The Queen Mother i.e. a Queen who is Mother (of the monarch).

Yes that's exactly what the designation means.

I don't think so. Previous widows of Kings who were mothers of monarchs were just known formally as Queen First Name, although they may at times have been referred to as Queen Mother. As others have explained, the title became necessary to distinguish the dowager Queen Elizabeth from her daughter the regnant queen. Perhaps if the Duchess of York had known that she would in time to come Queen and that her daughter would become Queen regnant, she might have chosen a different name for her daughter.

No

An interesting variation on this theme is the case of Lady Margaret Beaufort, who was the mother of King Henry VII. She was never Queen, but she was a very powerful and influential woman and in recognition of her status, she was known as My Lady the King's Mother.

Elizabeth Woodville, wife of Edward IV, was also mother of Elizabeth, consort of Henry VII.

So she would have been the previous potential owner of the exact title Queen Elizabeth the Queen Mother.

Although there isn't much detail, historians seem to think that Henry VII didn't really want her in the picture (probably Margaret Beaufort didn't either) so she wasn't much in the public eye after her daughter became Queen. She retired to Bermondsey Abbey.

Odd then that her education focused on preparing her for the role.

She was 10 when her uncle abdicated...so it's not odd.

Not if she was always going to be queen, no.

Glad we agree 🙂

Could you explain why you think she was expected to be Queen prior to the abdication?

I guess it depends on one's definition of 'always'.

At birth it was not at all a given that Elizabeth was going to be Queen. My point was that it's a bit strange that people can't get that the Monarchy has centuries-established rules and conventions governing how things are done and it's very silly indeed to be all about the Monarchy and the late Queen and yet not accepting of the fact that Camilla was always going to be Queen. Whether the individual approves or not is really of no consequence!

And by 'always' I mean upon marriage to KC. Just in case we're about to get into another discussion on the definition of 'always'. 😉

@CathyorClaire @OnlyWhenILaugh King Edward 8th hadn't had any children when he became king and he was 42 (old for a first time parent in those days 😁) so I expect there was the thought that he wouldn't have a direct heir so as Queen Elizabeth (then Princess) was second in line it was obvious that unless a brother had been born later on after Princess Margaret then Elizabeth was always going to be queen one day.

Yes it does make sense, of course, that there might have been tentative plans as there would have had to be a contingency. But even then she could easily have been ruled out as heir presumptive had her parents had a son. Just saying it wasn't an absolute.

They always said she wouldn't have the title - however, petulant, entitled, tosser has somehow ensured that's how she now referred as. I would title her as "the Royal keeper of any ink required products". Given his sulking when pen doesn't work - first time. Yes, Diana was a brood mare, but 'poor cow' - be sucked into to the false narrative. I can't imagine she was attracted to Dodi but she was thinking about money; and how ridiculous is that!

She would still have been Queen had she not used the title. Same as she officially was Princess of Wales regardless of whether she used the title or not.

I can't get het up over it.

I think 'always' is being used like the word 'definitely' is used in the phrase 'definitely maybe' 😄

God I loathe this bunch of twats. I hope big twat will abdicate soon given that his vile wife and he rarely live in same accommodation. Do F off

Exactly. And her uncle was 31 when she was born so at that time, her succeeding would have seemed more remote. Also, I have read that when the Duchess of York was pregnant with Margaret, she and most others were hoping for a boy, and expecting that to some extent. After Margaret's birth, and with the Prince of Wales's personal life not improving from a king-to-be perspective, focus on Elizabeth as a possible future monarch increased.

As to her education, she was in no way being prepared to be Queen until after her father's accession. An Eton schoolmaster gave her a bit of private tutoring in constitutional matters. Princess Margaret complained about the education (or lack thereof) they received as children.

Nicely put 😁however I think having waited his entire life for the top job the current incumbent will never step down voluntarily.

I have high hopes though that Workshy will be our last 'king'.

why the hell is it front page news that her dog is dead?
Christ its embarassing

I am very sad about her dog dying being a fellow Jack Russel owner

I also think it’s sad as a pet owner. Animals are part of the family and they have a place in our heart