Do you think as Camilla as the queen ?

[Rainbow321]

Hear me out , I have no problem with Camilla and never thought I would never see her as ( way back when ) as Charles wife when they married , my opinion,was they married and can rightly call herself as Duchess.
However , what I don't understand that when Queen Elizabeth was alive , her husband , Prince Phillip was always known as just that and never seen / addressed as King . Why is Camilla our queen when Phillip was never our king ? I'm confused .

Yes. He was referred to as the Duke of Edinburgh when I was young, even though he may have been a prince of Greece and Denmark and anywhere else, and the Queen bestowed the title of Prince Philip on him at some point, for here.

Nah, in the prayer book you just gently cross out 'Elizabeth our Queen' in pencil and write 'Charles our King' above, to keep yourself straight at all times and in all places.

I think QE2, along with church officials, went gently, gently, see how it goes, after C and C married, and as things eased towards Camilla, and when the late Queen had come to like and respect Camilla, she made that announcement.
It was at a formal occasion, maybe Charles's 70th birthday (?) that Queen Elizabeth paid Camilla a deliberate, definite compliment iirc.

It's late. You know I curtsey 27 times to the picture of the late Queen, which hangs in the hall, so I'd better be off. It's been such a busy week I haven't had time to practice fawning and being a serf.

Yes agree with this.

The problem is that because the word Consort was included, presumably for clarity given the queen had been monarch for so long, some like @ElvisNow interpret it to mean that referring to her as "the queen" rather than "the queen consort" isn't what was intended.

@Rainbow321 I agree with you

Should be Camilla or Queen consort or whatever.

When I hear 'queen' I think to myself she's not the queen

I think, good for Camilla, I am pleased she is trying to raise the profile of domestic violence as her cause. She’s doing a good job of the Queen role. She’s using her platform to do something important.

Philip has married in though? He wasn’t called King.

Nope

That's what PP was saying. Because of sexism, King > Queen. So when the monarch is male, happy days, he can be king and the married in female spouse can be queen. When the monarch is female, her spouse couldn't possibly be called king because you couldn't have a king consort lower in rank to a queen regnant.

So female consorts are queens, and male consorts are princes.

i also get confused
but i think they now, or the bbc now at least says Queen Camilla

anyway, i hope Queen Camilla is ok and recovers fully from her chest infection. being an ex smoker as well

I find it baffling and hilarious that anyone cares!

LOL, no, but then I can't get my head round old Charlie being king either. Every time I hear 'King Charles' on the news I always perk up my ears to hear if a spaniel has done something clever. Am always disappointed.

This point is not widely understood I think, especially after a historically unprecedentedly long-reigning Queen in the UK with her husband as a ‘prince’. It made the new Queen Camilla’s ascension seem more confusing because she became Charles’ ‘Queen’ and not his ‘Princess’.

Parliament legislatively (and the crown by asking questions) should be actively fighting sexism, but as everyone knows often they do not. As a basic equality signal Parliament should change this so you could in future have the ‘Monarch’ (ie regnant ‘Queen’ or ‘King’) then their spouse being the ‘Monarch Consort’ of opposite or same sex. I think it makes sense to recognise in the actual title that the regnant person and their spouse aren’t of the same level of monarch. Otherwise there’s the constant explanation of eg ‘yes OK she’s called Queen Camilla, so she is A Queen but she’s not The Queen’.
Prince and princess titles then only used as lifetime titles for relevant royal kids. No longer as a title for (only) a female monarch’s spouse.

It would be a good legacy action for Charles, especially in his parents’ memory. It would complement Q Camilla’s anti sexist work on violence against women and girls. It would complement the introduction of ‘equal’ legal succession (ie by birth order) that Q Elizabeth oversaw for her future great-grandchildren. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Succession_to_the_Crown_Act_2013

If Charles doesn’t want to lead on it because he doesn’t want to highlight Camilla’s position and rake up the past, then W&K need to be leading on this now before they are successors in the same position, with the public blessing of KC and QC. It could be part of their ‘royal with a small R’ stall which William is reported on today for saying. I don’t know what that means and it’s pretty vacuous as a standalone statement, so it’s good to have a clear modernising plan if that’s how you want to be seen as a future King. It is a silly thing for him to say without giving a ton of context with it, but that’s a discussion for another thread.

off topic but here’s the ‘small R’ sound bite just for reference.
https://news.sky.com/story/amp/prince-william-aiming-to-carry-out-duties-with-a-smaller-r-in-the-royal-13251740
I think Earthshot is brilliant and I appreciate the focus on homelessness from William so this definitely isn’t a pop at him. He’s doing a good job. I think that the monarchy role and the individual monarch’s conduct of it have such a complex relationship though, that saying you will be trying to do it with ‘a small r’ means just make it sound messy and woolly and as hoc. What exactly is he going to be downgrading or replacing?

That type of hypothetical question is the last thing William needs to be putting out there at the moment. I think charting a steady course in a time of serious family illness and struggle is plenty to do for him. No need to invite further scrutiny.

Not really…..I still think of THE Queen as Queen…..but it doesn’t offend me that Camilla is now queen

I entirely support Queen Camilla being referred to as The Queen, as that is her correct title. And she's making a good job of it too! But when I hear her referred to as The Queen (on her own, not as in The King and Queen), I still have to mentally correct as initially I think of QEII. It's just habit.
In the same way, I have to mentally correct when I hear The Prince of Wales, and then think "oh yes, William - not Charles". Takes a lot to shake off decades of using one name.

I have no problem with 'Princess of Wales' because it's been such a long time since Princess Diana died.

Yes its because a king out ranks a queen and thus a reigning queen cannot have a king.

On camellia I can’t see her as queen and I have no loyalty to the whole should have been Diana thing just I don’t really see him as king either. Just a bunch of oaps who inherited a fancy title.

Age wise it’s time for it to be William and Katherine but obviously that’s not how it works.

In times where kings and queens mattered none would have been becoming at Charles age 😅 nor would Harry been allowed to speak how he has either.

Because the monarchy is misogynistic and outdated

Why should a kin outrank a queen as default.

What exactly is he going to be downgrading or replacing?

As Richard Eden has reported all the royal events such as opening of libraries, hospital wings etc. getting rid of the ‘little people’ events that he doesn’t appear to value, he wants to concentrate on the big issues, he seems to forget the more distant from the people he and his family become the less anyone will care, it will be his downfall.

He hasn’t said that though, has he? I took it more to mean less grandiose as it were. Yes he’s said he wants to support his projects but I don’t think he has said that there will be no more “ribbon cutting etc”? Fewer patronages but not no patronages? I don’t think we can pre judge what he wants to do anyway. As we have often said, many had written Charles off before he became king 🤷‍♀️

I wondered if that is what he might mean. I can understand that he wants to try to leave a legacy of large change and so he wants to be associated with large projects. But I am sceptical that he adds any value on a detailed level compared to being a figurehead so I don't see why it needs to be an either or. Same with the Princess of Wales.
I think these days the walkabouts probably have more challenges, one way or another, than for QEII, but that maybe because I have the benefit of hindsight and know nothing happened. They probably are quite scary.

I also thing of QE2 when they say "the queen" now. I wish she could be known as Queen Camilla instead, I'm not sure why that wasn't the thing. She'd still have the title but wouldn't be confused with QE2.