Harry on Tour

[Mylovelygreendress]

Just looking at the photos of Harry in Lesotho . Don’t know when I last saw him looking so relaxed and happy .
Nice to see.

I firmly believe that Harry’s main gripe is that William has 24/7 security so he wants it too .

I don't think William will risk disapproval but there may not be much if he presents the decision in the right way.

I believe Charles should be the one to make any changes while he is still King, it would be an awful legacy to lay at Williams feet, knowing how Harry and Meghan will perceive any changes that affects them and their children. Hopefully, when he is back to full health he can get the ball moving in modernising and slimming down the monarchy.

I agree that Charles needs to initiate any changes and he should do something like the Queen of Denmark. I don't think it will be a particularly controversial move. Nobody sees the need for more princes and princesses in the 21st century than is absolutely necessary. H and M also haven't helped their case by isolating their dcs from the British RF and bringing their dcs up in the US.

On the security question, Neil Basu, the former head of counterterrorism policing, has said publicly that there were a huge number of credible threats against H&M, specifically race-based theats. So H does have a point about their safety in the UK, both as a couple and for her specifically.

Andrew, doesn't have paid security either, neither do his girls or grandchildren.

Ann and Ed only get security going to and from Royal engagements.

So why would Harry be any different?

I think the security thing is just an excuse. Charles doesn't trust Harry (or he would have been invited to Sandringham earlier in the year).

And while Charles might want to rebuild bridges and redevelop trust in Harry. Charles will never trust Meghan.

Just the same as Philip never shared a room with Fergie, after Andrew divorce even although Andrew and Fergie live in the same house.

Here is the article from 2 years ago referring to M’s ( short!) time as a working Royal .
Can’t find anything more recent .

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-63804711.amp

I am not condoning threats , just pointing out they were during a different period .

Well no, not really because we know that RAVEC monitor threats and that if there was a credible, current threat (ie past threats are not relevant), then security would be provided. They really don’t want anything bad to happen to the Sussexes.
And my point anyway was that Harry has been able to come and go to the UK relatively unnoticed, so it’s perfectly possible for his family to do the same. After all, where would they be going apart from to visit family members who all live in heavily guarded Royal establishments? If they want to come over for a jolly or to go shopping on the other hand, they won’t have security provided. But I can’t see any reason for them to want to do that anyway. Meghan doesn’t have any connections over here 🤷‍♀️

eta Harry refused an invitation to stay in a royal palace on a recent visit because he said it wasn’t secure enough but that is clearly bollocks

He is the former head. He hasn't been in post for nearly 7 years, he has no current info as to threat.

Every member of the RF will have credible threats made against them. Many of the Sussex threats were US based, and Europe wide.

Harry has RAVEC assessing all current threats and will be given security if deemed necessary. It's clearly not necessary.

We can't base current security on out of date assessments.

No one disputes there were credible threats. This is why RAVEC took the unusual step of assessing Harry's security on a case by case basis, rather than simply removing it as they did with Beatrice and Eugenie. He has security when he visits and the level is given depending on the threat level at the time he visits.

The problem is that Harry isn't happy with effective security based on an up to date security assessment. He wants IPP status; permanent security internationally, supplied by whichever country the IPP is currently in. But, by international agreement, that is only offered to people who are politically significant, which he isn't.

I agree that Charles should be making the decision, I just don't think he will.

Tbh, Neil Basu shouldn't have been commenting publically about the matter.

All members of the rf receive threats. An ISIS supporter was jailed for 25 years - one of his plans was to kill Prince George.

Of course their safety is an issue which needs to be considered but Harry has been given a more than generous solution to the issue of their safety in the UK.

He can bring his own private security team - they can’t carry guns in the UK but they can use their expertise in protection in every other respect.

RAVEC is monitoring the threat level and will provide extra armed protection if there is a current credible threat on any visit.

If they come to spend time with family - for example a week in Balmoral with Charles they will be blanket protected by the King’s security coverage.

Harry wants a motorcade for his image and ego.

It may need to be Charles

Because it needs to be done before the Wales DC start coupling up and maybe having their own DC

If no change, then the DC of George (2nd in line) would be Prince/ss, those of Charlotte (3rd) would be untitled unless their father had one and they’d take it from that, whilst those of Louis (4th) would be Prince/ss. Which would be a nonsense.

So perhaps in future either all DGC of a monarch are Prince/ss, or only those in the direct line.

Blimey, I don't think I've ever been quoted so many times!

I wasn't trying to say "Oh, one former senior police officer said this, so Harry is right" - just that Harry, being a bear of very little brain, is not going to think about things in a rounded or holistic way, but that the police and security services did think there was a level of threat to Meghan, in particular, that was beyond that of some other RF members and that was because of her race during her time in the UK.

I don't think there is any evidence she received more threats. She was definitely threatened by racists, who are also bears of very little brain imo, but there is no evidence the level of threat was higher than other senior royals. If it was then they would have received appropriate security.

Level of threat and type of threat are different and not related to each other.

Because it needs to be done before the Wales DC start coupling up and maybe having their own DC
If no change, then the DC of George (2nd in line) would be Prince/ss, those of Charlotte (3rd) would be untitled unless their father had one and they’d take it from that, whilst those of Louis (4th) would be Prince/ss. Which would be a nonsense.

They could just follow Princess Ann and Prince Edward examples with no actual changes needed - then just wait to make any actual changes when it's less an issue as Sussex's get further from line of succession and just present it as tidying rules up to follow existing convention that been in place decades and followed by two generations of children of reining monarchs.

I don't agree, because the situation of Anne and Edward is not the same.

Edward chose not to give royal titles to his offspring, even though they have the right to them
Anne could not pass on royal titles to hers because it is barred in the female line.

So a solution whereby all DGC get them, but the convention is that they are not used other than in the direct line is a possibility. Or going further and only having it given to those in the direct line in the first place.

But it the first two Wales DC had been Georgina and Carlo, under the current LPs, the DC in the direct line would be Master and Miss (or Lord and Lady if Georgina married a peer) whereas those in the "spare" line would have the right to be HRH Prince/ss (as would all those of subsequent sons, but not daughters)

It's a wrinkle consequent to the abolition of the "male" part of primogeniture, and I think it needs ironing out (ideally before any of the young Wales are coupling up)

Edited to add: it need not make any difference to the Sussex DC, if it were stated that all styles and titles based on the LP in force at the time of the person's birth could continue in use. So Beatrice, Eugenie, Louise, James, Archie and Lili all keep the right to be HRH Prince/ss, but can choose whether or not they use it (though HRH is of course now in practice for working royals only); and none of those 6 will be able to pass it to their DC.

I thought that KC could not dictate Royal security - it is decided by the police ( re post below )

"Which is funny, really, when you think Harry says his dad can with the flick of a hand change his security position, for example. So clearly there is some discretion the monarch can exercise. I suspect they’ll feel the burn of that discretion more when William ascends to the throne."

I think KC can't dictate security details - they are decided elsewhere - I think Harry is being naive in thinking his father can fix this ( Ie IIP or whatever the term is for free taxpayer funded security wherever he is )

ER II's letter (which came out in court) sets out the limits on this.

Monarch cannot direct RAVEC, all they can do is make representations (her wish for her DGC to be safe) whilst entirely recognising that RAVEC must make its own decisions. Which they did - creating the new "bespoke" assessment process that would be updated for every trip.

It's the police who then act on the RAVEC decisions about who gets personal protection, and supply the personnel who actually carry out the role. IIRC, the diplomatic and VVIP protection squad is part of the Met.

IPP is not the same as receiving governmental security when in this country. IPP is about reciprocal agreements to protect international visitors when in each others' countries. It's for heads of state and heads of government (and their close representatives, eg the Waleses for the monarch) and certain senior diplomats, plus people with certain international roles such as the Pope and the Sec General of the UN

I think the monarch - especially the late Queen - can have a lot of unofficial behind the scenes influence - just like lots of very rich and well connected people have.

It’s changed and faded in certain areas over the years - the press is a huge example - when the media was mainly restricted to newspapers owned by British press barons, and the BBC, the people in charge of those were all members of the same ‘set’ and a word in the right ear could get stories quashed or forgotten.

That power simply doesn’t exist anymore - there’s clearly still some quid pro quo deals going on but no one is hiding a major exclusive for the sake of the monarch’s favour.

Harry knows that deals with the media and other places like government agencies etc can be made I suspect because deals were made to protect him and his antics all the time before he got married.

He’s benefited from that privilege for his whole life. But he’s never really understood the give and take part of it - possibly because it was someone else who had to do the ‘owing a favour’ for anything he was supported with.

It’s also a power you have to use sparingly otherwise you look like a dictator (what Harry wants to do when he thinks the press can just be shut up, or RAVEC told to do something) or a dodgy dealer (like Andrew and Fergie exchanging royal adjacency for money.)

@EdithWeston

Thank you - that actually explains it very well - very helpful and much more knowledgeable then me

Why is Harry so obsessed with hair ??
https://people.com/prince-harry-shares-prince-archie-princess-lilibet-blessed-with-thick-hair-like-meghan-markle-8724907

I think it’s his ‘thing’ - doesn’t he keep a lock of Diana’s hair by his bedside?

Probably because he's losing so much of his!!