Harry’s anxiety in NY

[Makingwaves2]

What to make of the fact that he appeared without Meghan and looked quite anxious and stressed?

Princess Margaret complained that she had never been educated while of course HMQEII received constitutional tuition from history specialists.

QEQM aparently wasn't that bothered about education, it was Queen Mary who saw to that aspect of the future QEII's upbringing.

But
(1) I can't imagine Margaret would have been much interested in lectures on constitutional history
(2) She was four years younger than Elizabeth; they wouldn't have been following the same curriculum at the same time.
(3) Margaret could have got any kind of education she wanted when she was an adult.

This is such a valid point. I don’t for one moment think that either Charles or Diana thought him as a spare. They loved their son for him. It’s just hereditary lineage

Well I think Diana did say it (in a letter?)

But of course it's an affectionate joke as it always is.

OK, there may be times when someone - anyone - doesn't like a standard joke that's related to something about them. But even if that joke has worn v thin, or got to you for some other reason (and I'm being mindful here that bullying is decided from the perspective of the recipient of comments not the speaker), he's had several decades to come to terms with it being a joke phrase.

Instead he seems to have bigged it up out of all proportion, and let it define his life. I don't mean in the sense that he's not the heir (basic primogeniture) but in a sense of somehow being wronged all the time.

The other thing that sets them apart from others is being the second child in what was effectively an arranged marriage. He needed a wife and heir, she didn't really know him and was sort of pushed into it, a good catch.

While they both loved the boys they never really loved each other.

Plenty of people grow up in that situation. With significantly less privileges to deal with it.

Until he met Meghan , Harry always gave the impression of loving life . All of the privileges without the huge responsibilities. He was able to be wild in a way that William couldn’t.
Then Meghan came along and he suddenly didn’t like being below William . Remember he wanted to share the Duchy of Cornwall ? And Meghan would never accept walking behind Catherine and never having first choice of tiara etc .

The example of her not curtsying to Camilla shows her disrespect for women she considers beneath her.

The heir also got the burden of stewardship of the inherited land, and having to keep a big, old house structurally sound and the estate financially viable in the modern world where nothing comes cheap anymore. I'd rather be the spare: top notch education, well connected, career down any path I wanted within my talents and a free holiday home by the sea. Bingo!

All of the privileges without the huge responsibilities

Being Spare sounds better doesn't it, he was always one of the most popular Royals as well wasn't he, despite their insistence the media sabotaged him.

The reality is that his point of reference for his woe is me feelings are extremely wealthy and privileged people. Even in the military he was in the most elitist Regiment, he wasn't mingling with Bob from oop Norf who joined as a private at 16 to escape poverty and a chaotic family. He's clueless on the real world, and doesn't realise how pathetic his ridiculous gripes are, especially at the moment with the cost of living etc. At least with the others (and I'm not even a fan of the Royals) they don't try and claim they're hard done by.

Fundamentally though, just because a tradition is centuries old, it doesn’t make it any less unjust or unfair.

And let’s not forget of course that women have been disempowered and left out of the chain of inheritance for years.

We all know how families can have bitter disputes over probate issues and that’s partly because it’s very hard to separate out how much a parent loves you with how much money and property you inherit and that is the case whether you were born in a labourer’s cottage or a stately home.

I haven't followed the dates of all this that closely, but did Harry actually have time for his so called 40th birthday lads holiday between his birthday and arriving in NY?

If so, it means he'll have been away from home for even longer if he's going straight to the UK and then to Lesotho.

If Meghan misses the chance to join him in Lesotho then it would certainly give out some strong signals that all is not well at home.

I do find it funny that there's not even been a hint of who went on this lads holiday and where it was - if it did indeed happen it certainly proves Harry can travel about in complete secrecy when he wants to.

I really find it distasteful that some posters on this thread are almost hoping that a couple with young children are having marriage difficulties.

I don’t think people are hoping that at all but it strikes me there is a certain inevitability about it . Marry in haste etc .

The thing is, most people live with it, work around it and find a way forward. This man seems unable to do so.

That is wild extropolation.
I hope you don't live your life making deductions in that way - things could go very wrong indeed!

Totally agree.

And suggesting that two little children aren't safe with their own mother because she is a narcissistic bully. 😮
Is this what Mumsnet is about?

By the way, I 'married in haste' at a similar age to Harry and Meghan. We are decades into it

I got married very quickly too, and we've been together a long time. It doesn't necessarily mean that the marriage is doomed. No-one has any idea of what's going on in a marriage. That's their private life. There have been some horrible threads on here about W&K, commenting that they were set to divorce. It's nonsense. You can't say that about any couple, really.

I don't think Harry doing a succession of visits without Meghan is a sign their marriage is in trouble. Lots of husband go on business trips and we don't know if she will join him at some point.

To go back to a point upthread, I don't understand the narrative that William is lazy, I agree with the parallel to a CEO, I don't get what one does in their everyday working life but I'm sure they work hard even if what they are doing is mostly invisible to the public eye.

(If William is lazy though Harry and Meghan must be practically horizontal, they do far less than he does. )

I do think that the long Summer break the royals take needs to end at some point, it was fine in the 50s but the public in general do not live a traditional Society social calendar (the Season, hunting, shooting, house parties, visits to the South of France etc etc) and it looks odd in modern times. Go to Balmoral but do more from there.

I have pondered this.

Did PH make it known at any point before his marriage that being the spare was so onerous for him?

I don't think anyone hopes they have marriage difficulties but there appears to be something unhealthy in the relationship, including the fall outs with both families and many friends.

Is Harry really happy with the NC with his family, especially when his Dad is ill?
His own family don't trust him or his wife. That is very sad.

We all know how families can have bitter disputes over probate issues and that’s partly because it’s very hard to separate out how much a parent loves you with how much money and property you inherit and that is the case whether you were born in a labourer’s cottage or a stately home.

I think that families with land / assets etc undertand that they have these in trust for the next generation - the current holder may not even be able to decide to split it all up if there are legal restrictions in place. I think most families undertand its not personal in these situations.

Not at all. In fact, quite the opposite.
I remember an interview when he joined the army, and he was asked about the loss of his mother. He said (words to the effect) "lots of blokes have lost their mum", which I thought was very balanced.

I dont understand your response to my Q.....maybe you meant to quote another poster?

So I don't understand this. if he is anxious about public speaking, he has 2 options: not to do it as no one forces him or prepare well with the help of a coach. To me he looks a wreck. I wouldn't like to presume but it looks like he has a drug problem. It must be excruciating for his family in the UK to see hime like this. He looks like he's been completely finished off.

Sorry if I wasn't clear! I was referring to the point when he regarded being Spare as onerous or not. I was just commenting that at one point he seemed to take things more in his stride. If that makes sense!

Good for him to bite back against an inherently unjust system.

People often do passively live with, and work around things, leaving no room for progress and healthy evolution.

No need to "bite back".
No need to live with it passively.
No need to monetise it.
He is an extremely wealthy and well connected man. He could afford good therapy, work with it, and work hard to progress. That is a choice.