Nigeria?

[MaturingCheeseball]

Can this be true? That Harry and Meghan are off on a “royal” trip to Nigeria? What’s the game now? My head is spinning!

@NoisySnail That is such a tit for tat response.

I’m not saying those comments would be ok, if they had or have been posted, certainly not. (And I’m not going to ask for proof!) But in the context of this discussion about the level of miss information, bullying and hate aimed at the Princess of Wales, that’s your response?! Wow.

Have a look at twitter accounts like Brazen Hussy Shi4ni, posts and replies - Queens R Made is another one. There are dozens of twitter and Instagram accounts with absolutely foul content, especially about William and Kate. I had a look when Bouzy started to bump his gums and couldn't believe what I was reading tbh.

It’s all about the whataboutery for some posters. I refuse to directly engage further. I know when I come across someone who can’t be reasoned with.

There were protests long before William and Catherine were in Jamaica.

Then it was up to the Jamaican government to cancel or postpone the visit if they thought it shouldn't take place, as the French did recently with the King's state visit.

Or the UK government could have advised that the visit shouldn't go ahead - although this would happen very rarely as it would be seen as a snub to the host country.

But, and this has been explained repeatedly, it is not up to members of the Royal Family to decide when, where or if an official visit should take place. It is entirely a matter for the governments of the countries concerned.

Harry and Meghan by contrast did meet with Bob Marley's family on their trip to Jamaica. They did not have to pose in front of a cut out cardboard figure of Bob Marley.

https://www.mirror.co.uk/3am/us-celebrity-news/harry-meghans-welcome-jamaica-stark-31953377

You’re so right on those @Gorgonemilezola. There was a poster on the jam thread who pretty much quoted Bouzy word for word recently. Interesting….

Please do not pretend the Royal Family have no agency. If they are just dress up dolls then there is zero point to them.

I am not a fan of Harry and Meghan as you will no doubt accuse me of being. But Harry and Meghan did understand the situation in Jamaica and planned a visit that was rooted in contemporary realities, rather than the 1950's colonial tour William and Catherine embarked upon.

Er, the Jamaican govt asked for the visit - the rf don't just turn up. But don't let facts get in the way, eh?

Queen Elizabeth wanted the tour to happen to try and secure the Commonwealth. This tour was about the Royal Family and its role, nothing else. Probably why it was such a disaster.

Not me. I hope they stay together, they'd ruin another couple.

Didn't realise the Queen had discussed it with you.

Harry was invited to a film premiere. That's it! There is no comparison. If he chose to get involved in political talk that is his choice as a member of the public. He doesn't represent the British RF in any shape or form despite what goes on in his deluded head.

I do not care what Harry and Meghan do. But my point was they understand the political context they are working within. It shows. So Bob Marley's family was happy to meet them in Jamaica at the Film Premiere.
William and Catherine played the bongos and visited the tourist attraction - Bob Marley's old house. They clearly do not understand the political context they are working in.
If the Royal Family do not modernise by understanding modern political contexts, they will not last. Philip understood that, no one else seems to. Instead they just keep blaming anyone but themselves.

Again you have missed the main point. They are not political animals. They are desperadoes looking for a buck wherever they can get it coupled with the rejection that both of them feel for not having their starting role in the RF. They are full paid up members of www.rentanaward.com.

Starring role!

Have you got the link to them being refused a visit by the Marley family?

Thanks!

@AnnieSF I do not care.
The Royal Family is not some magical institution that will automatically exist for ever. Philip understood that. Queen Elizabeth understood she had to be seen to be believed.
The younger Royals show no sign of understanding any of this.

William and Catherine played the bongos and visited the tourist attraction - Bob Marley's old house. They clearly do not understand the political context they are working in.

I don't know why I'm still bothering, but the programme will have been devised by the host government, in consultation with the UK govt. Are you saying the Jamaican govt devised a programme of events with the deliberate intention of embarrassing their guests?

(And were H&M invited to the premier? I read that they weren't sitting with the VIPs, because they weren't expected and there wasn't room for them.)

NoisySnail
William and Catherine on the jeep recreating the Queen and Philips visit was a full on colonial look and should never have happened.
The firing on camera should have been foreseen. The Royal Family treat these countries as photo opportunities and largely ignore what the inhabitants of the countries think. There were large local demonstrations against them, the Royal Family just pretended they did not exist.

My point was that there's a mismatch here - W & K (or even the RF) wouldn't have made the decision to go to Jamaica, would they? These things are arranged mutually between the UK Foreign Office and the hostcountry. The RF are symbolic agents, there to do the bidding of the British government in liaison with the host country. Any problems arising would indicate some kind of failure in communication on behalf of these two, not the RF.

Therefore the problems in Jamaica shouldn't have arisen, really. If there were local protests, it's the job of the Jamaican authorities to manage that - not for W & K to get involved. If the protesters were simply holding up placards opposing the royal visit, then fair play - it's their right, but doesn't require any 'action' or reaction from W & K. So not in any way a fault of theirs - it would be highly inappropriate for them to have done anything or said anything.

The fence incident was just bad faith on behalf of photographers/media looking to present a neutral situation in a bad light.

I agree that the request to meet Bob M's family was unfortunate, but I'm sure W & K meant well and didn't deserve to be rudely snubbed, which I hope they weren't.

I bet W & K just went away feeling: I wish these people (the UK and Jamaican govts) would just make their bloody minds up about what they want, and then let us know!).

As I asked in my previous post - did the Jamaicans request this visit? Surely there must have been some liaison - the royals don't just launch themselves on countries. My point is that if the visit clearly wasn't wanted, why didn't the Jamaicans just say no? But it must have been horrible for W & K to find themselves in the middle of all this and I have only sympathy for them.

Are you saying William and Catherine had zero say on anything?
That the Jamaican government told them to stand on that jeep? Told Catherine to wear a red dress like Scarlett O Hara?
I do not believe that for a moment. Visits are a negotiation. A Royal family member visited a charity I am a Trustee for. We suggested what the visit could look like and they agree or make their own suggestions.
If the Royal Family really are told where to go and what to wear then we may as well appoint good looking models to be Heads of State. As their only role would be to look good in photos.

Abouttimeforanamechange · Today 15:38
William and Catherine played the bongos and visited the tourist attraction - Bob Marley's old house. They clearly do not understand the political context they are working in.

I don't know why I'm still bothering, but the programme will have been devised by the host government, in consultation with the UK govt. Are you saying the Jamaican govt devised a programme of events with the deliberate intention of embarrassing their guests?

Absolutely! To blame W & K is just ridiculous and very naive about how these things are arranged. I think we need to look at what the Jamaicans were playing at because they seem to have been responsible for much of what 'went wrong', and I don't think W & K brought the wire fence along with them...

The defence for anything the Royal Family do appears to be - the big boys made me do it.
There seems no evidence of introspection. I still seen no sign that the Royal Family have learned from their mistakes.
Charles is better at this than William and Catherine. I think there will be many more mistakes in the future.

NoisySnail · Today 15:43
Are you saying William and Catherine had zero say on anything?
That the Jamaican government told them to stand on that jeep? Told Catherine to wear a red dress like Scarlett O Hara?

I don't know, but I can't believe you're making such bizarre connections...

A red dress? Blimey! Scarlett O'Hara also famously wore a lovely white dress and a green velvel dress, and I think a mauve cotton dress, plus of course her black dress when she was widowed. That's a lot of colours to rule out.

Standing up on a jeep to be seen - off with their heads. This is getting ridiculous.

No, I think we need to ask questions about the Jamaican govt's role and objectives in all of this. It sounds, from what you say, that there was bad faith involved?? Setting people up to fail?

NoisySnail · Today 15:15

Queen Elizabeth wanted the tour to happen to try and secure the Commonwealth. This tour was about the Royal Family and its role, nothing else. Probably why it was such a disaster.

That's not how royal tours happen. There has to be a lot more than 'QE wanted it'.

At the time that accusation was made and the Jamaican government said they did not devise the troop inspection visit in the jeep.
This was the Royal Family and staff. At the time William and Catherine blamed their staff.
I could believe the Jamaican government received a request for these events and obliged knowing it would be a disaster. But they were clear it was not their idea.

And lets go conspiracy theory. Lets pretend the Jamaican government planned this to embarrass the Royal Family. Is there really no one amongst the Royal Family or their staff bright enough to veto the proposal realising it would be a disaster?