american riviera orchard - what was that all about then?

[Tenmus]

It seems to have gone the same way as their Sussex Royal site. I don't know much about social media or PR, but this all seems pretty odd and ineffectual.

But Harry has become less attractive with all the lying and whinging.

Yes, as I said. But I still think that Prince Harry, when younger, was objectively handsome.

....they could influence Charles with some of the reforms and modernisations they were seeking

If you want to reform and modernise any longstanding institution, it's a good idea first to understand how and why it works the way it does. These two don't have a clue. I don't think Meghan ever grasped that she was not dealing with a celebrity family, but with a 1500 year old institution that is a central part of our constitution (which has overcome far greater crises than a tantrum and flounce by a couple of relatively minor figures).

Alright, question - who is the more handsome Prince -

Edward
Harry

I think Edward's looks have improved with age. And he's in pretty good shape for a man of sixty.

(which has overcome far greater crises than a tantrum and flounce by a couple of relatively minor figures).

Indeed - it overcame a tantrum and a flounce by an actual King, not that long ago! In quite similar circs.

And Harry's beloved Great Grandmother never forgave them. And never let them back in again.

I agree @Abouttimeforanamechange , that’s why I said if they’d bothered to learn the ropes they might have got what they wanted eventually. There’s a sentence in a book I read as a kid that’s always stuck with me: “Fight the system and it will crush you, outwit the system and you will reap the rewards.” You actually need to be interested in and care for the system to get there though, interest beyond merely what it can do for you. Neither H&M have that interest - despite them both touting their political credentials, their interest is pure self interest.

Yes I think if they stuck it out nd played the game they would have been enormously popular.

Her clothes didn't fit her properly then, either. 😑

I actually think that if M&H had kept in line, learned the ropes and done the hard yards of ribbons cutting without complaint, they would be the the stars of the RF now

Do you really think they’d have the PATIENCE or HUMILITY for that?

I think you're bang on, there. The only thing that Prince Harry ever thought up - Invictus - was made to work by other people.

Kermit

They 'could' have been, but it's not in either of their nature - they both have it in their heads what they want, they couldn't get that in the RF so they tried to spur off and be the USA branch of the RF, QE2 said no, so they didn't anyway! ... yet make such complete arses if themselves, made themselves transparent with their self important, entitled behaviours and spitting out vile nastiness about their families, as well as lying about things, and making money out of this disgraceful behaviour, and people with an ounce of nous have seen straight through it all
They're becoming more and more alone as people turn tail and exclude them
They're not 'stuck it out' people really, or at all to be honest!

Re. The lifestyle/blog thing, one of the things that occurs to me is that if you are advising women on fashion, or see yourself as a fashion icon, you do need to have a fashion sense of your own. Meghan Markle has no fashion sense of her own, possibly because of the lack of personality. That Southpark opening the lid of her brain comes to mind. She just grasps at random, expensive clothes or designer clothes. £50,000 for an engagement interview dress - so oppressed eh? Now she has jettisoned the sexy ripped jeans look, for the I’m so rich, I don’t even have to care about fashion, expensive-beige, it’s even more the case. Now lots of women don’t have any interest in fashion or any fashion sense, in fact, some of my favourite people, but they don’t go round telling other women what to wear either or think they are some kind of fashionista lol !! Her fashion sense has always been about “status” - sexual or financial.

Re. Food. I thought she always maintained that she was never much of a cook. Chicken salad was her mainstay I think she said somewhere. So I don’t know about the “cooking blog” idea as having much traction either.

The theme tune of Harry and Meghan:

When Edward was young, he was ok. His son is turning into a handsome young man.

Harry is going to look like Henry viii shortly.

When Katherine Parr got him.

Absolutely agree. They had a golden opportunity to shape the RF and shine brightly. I think a lot of us wanted it too.

I think Edward has grown into his face. Some men do.

I didn't consider him a particularly attractive young man, but as an older one he's fair-to-middlin'. Too skinny for my taste, though. (This would probably be a relief to him if anything. 😁)

By the way, I don’t have anything specifically against her. There are much worse people in the world. I’m not even a royalist. However her manipulative attacks on others - the royal family, people who voted Brexit are racist, and her virtue signalling narcissism just get my goat!

Basic reality is that she’s just a very seductive, narcissistic woman who managed to seduce some rich jerk (a tale as old as time). However - she should have had the sense to shut up about her wily good fortune (hunting).

Re. The lifestyle/blog thing, one of the things that occurs to me is that if you are advising women on fashion, or see yourself as a fashion icon, you do need to have a fashion sense of your own.

You also need to be seen at glamorous or prestigious events, not award shows nobody has ever heard of. And you need to engage with your audience, not just post selected photos weeks later.

Meghan's control freakery is a big barrier between her making a success of anything. That's another reason why I think this 'cooking show' won't materialise. She would need to control every detail and always be the centre of attention. Which is dull as.

Aye. A lot of us were delighted at the prospect and were looking forward to it.

I would be exceedingly surprised if they ever managed to claw that affection back.

Too much has happened.

He never thought it up though. It was already established by others. It was given to him as a “job” by his family, but established by others, I believe in Canada. Even a “stoner” needs to get up in the morning (sorry a bit pointed).

He is the 5th in line and she is his wife. They were never going to 'shape the RF'. It's a lot bigger than these two relatively minor players.

I do agree that they could have become 'stars', especially now with so few senior royals 'in action'. Of course their star would start to fade as soon as the Wales children reach adulthood, but that's the nature of things. They would have a decade or so of being the 'glamorous royals', getting to hang out with heads of state, travel the world, highlight causes they believe in, and more. But they thought they were too good for that.

Off topic but Whitney Houston was simply so beautiful!

Honestly, it just shows what jerks they were/are. Fifth or Sixth in line to the throne is not nothing. It’s an incredible position - so much status but also freedom. They are just so selfish and egotistical that wasn’t enough for them, basically. And now they are basically deadbeats in Monteshitshow, selling pots and pans. You’d have to have a heart of stone not to laugh.