american riviera orchard - what was that all about then?

[Tenmus]

It seems to have gone the same way as their Sussex Royal site. I don't know much about social media or PR, but this all seems pretty odd and ineffectual.

@JJathome and @shenandoahvalley , very well put, thank you 👏

I think ‘recollections may vary’ may go down in history as the most concise and effective come back ever. It was really the start of people look at the inconsistencies in Harry and Meghan’s representations of themselves and others. What a very graceful way of pointing out that the person attacking you is a habitual liar.

There really is something to be said for the royals, indeed anyone famous, keeping their mouths shut.

And who will forget "collaborate with the Queen". So misguided, on so many fronts, especially coming from Harry.

I haven't seen any reports he's not still drawing his reputed $1m ($1m!) pa from BetterUp but I suppose their eye may have been diverted by the multiple reports of disenchantment from their therapists

I do think Harry was overly protected regarding Diana and hasn’t bothered to do his own research. Diana herself went through peaks and troughs in popularity and the squabbling between her and Charles did more harm than good to both of them. The royal family ride the waves, Harry constantly tries to fight them.

I agree, it was a very clear and classy rebuttal. She said it without saying it. Much classier than saying what a pile of horseshit, but had the same meaning.

I think that is the aim. I don’t think they’ve thought beyond just spiteful goading and mudslinging to make themselves feel better. I don’t think there is any goal beyond making RF uncomfortable.

That’s a wild level of energy to make your family uncomfortable. I could just say a couple words privately and manage it if I wanted.

I think they deluded themselves about their trip to Australia. Crowds turned out from curiosity and residual fondness for Harry. It was not an endorsement of Meghan's unique amazingness and global stardom which is how Harry seems to have interpreted it. And multiple stories started to emerge of the couple's poor behaviour behind the scenes.

@MaisieMacabe
"Because they believed it was about them personally, not the role."
This!
The sad thing is that they had some positive press when they did their tour (whichever one it was), when the press felt blindsided when they had complaints.
Leaving the RF (or taking a step back) to do something else, could have been a positive thing, but neither have any skills (Meghan a minor actress in a cable show, and Harry not much), except for slagging off the RF.
If they are ostracised by the RF, it is not for leaving; it is because they have done nothing but slag off the RF since, with apparantly repeating private conversations, photos taken in private areas of the palaces, releasing private medical information on family members, etc

I don't think he has reached the level of maturity to see his parents as real people, with their strengths and weaknesses.

It must be difficult when you lose a parent so young. Of course you put them on a pedastal, similar to the 'Disney Dad' phenomenon, or adopted children having fantasies about their birth family.

But there comes a point for most people where they reassess their parents from the perspective of adults. And coming to a more balanced understanding that doesn't need a pedestal, or a completely good/completely bad narrative. That can accept them as human beings with all the usual faults and weaknesses as well as (hopefully) many good qualities and wonderful individual quirks.

It feels from what he’s written that he didn’t feel he had a normal relationship with his father who was so often working or emotionally absent. I think Charles did his best, but he was an older dad . Quite stuffy and old fashioned and Harry was at school and brought up by others largely when his mother died. When he spent time with Charles, TLB seemed to be a surrogate mother , even before Diana died. I get the impression he was lonely and confused a lot of the time. His older brother was brighter, more mature and obviously destined for different things, and their characters are very different . William met Kate quite early on and had her family for support. Harry just seems to me to be a very mixed up guy with arrested development. He’s married a very manipulative and self serving person who is also emotionally immature and damaged. She encourages his feelings of being hard done by and his paranoia. The drugs certainly can’t help.

Having lost my father as a teen, older than Harry, it took me an awfully long time not to see him as perfect and amazing. I am also, like Harry, a very emotional person, whose other parent is more emotionally distant. Charles, it appears, consoled him when my mother wasn’t capable of doing so and therefore he did have that advantage, whereas my advantage was having my dad die older… idk how much of an advantage that was as it was in the peak teen break away stage so that was hard. What I didn’t have all my life was seeing my now dead parent in the constant spotlight, adored, reviled, harassed, the most famous person on the planet. And my parents didn’t divorce whereas his did, very publicly.

Part of me is really disgusted by how Harry has behaved since leaving the the UK. Part of me understands the reasons as to why he hasn’t moved on. When I was younger and in my early, mid 20s, I spoke often of my pain to anyone, who would listen. There were many things I was bitter about, the anger towards my mother, which a fair amount was justified, albeit she was doing her best. Then I eventually and in my early 40s found a therapist, who helped me to heal. Despite having had anyone he wanted at his finger tips, he hasn’t managed to find that person and the ‘therapy’ that he appears to have received in the US has only made matters worse, expecting others to hold themselves accountable, to bare all.

If he has indeed played a part in the Sussex Squad’s harassment of William and Catherine, this is inexcusable.

There are moments, when I do understand how and why they used this enormous platform to complain about the RF. And I can see how misguided they are. Unless something radical changes, I do think the only solution for them is to return to the fold and as @shenandoahvalley said in the brilliant post, this will blow over. But idk if Meghan would ever contemplate doing this, which leaves them in a very difficult position, probably doing more of the same and expecting different results.

I think a lot has been revealed without actually spelling it out .

for example. The bullying claims. Those were bad. People crying, scared, shaking, one said they were servants but she was the first to make them feel like it.

that investigation was buried. I think it’s a safe assumption if it had been unfounded noth harry and Megan would have been publicising the hell out of it. So it’s safe to assume she was bullying and harrasing the staff.

that speaks to her character. You’re either that person or you’re not.

Harry knew better, he knew how to treat staff and he was too weak to stop it. He simply enabled her, that speaks to his personality.

the dog bowl fight with William. Harry tells us about it. But he doesn’t tell us what the argument was about. Completely side steps it. Simply tells us about the culmination of it. Williams actions. Which tells us he doesn’t want us to know what it was about. Rumour has it it was about Megan bullying the staff. That stacks up as something Harry wouldn’t reveal. Because it would put a different slant of the fight. Show Harry as weak, William as trying to protect them, Megan as a bully

he tells us in an interview that the family expected Megan to go, but not him. Which tells us they knew she wasn’t happy, she hadn’t settled, but that they thought they would split.

he tells us William asked him to slow down. Not rush to marry Megan. Which says they all knew it wasn’t going to work. And in hindsight it was advice Harry should have listened to.

the issues were there from the start. Well before the public knew about the issues. Well before Harry shamefully made his statement about suing the press when actually representing the queen in Africa, and Megan tearfully telling us people didn’t ask how she was, on the same tour.

it was bad from day one. And Megan’s true character has been revealed. Bullying staff is heinous. As said you’re either that person or you’re not. And behind the scenes, that’s who she is. And Harry is a weak easily led man who turned on his own family to please her.

Harry knew better, he knew how to treat staff

I agree with a lot if what you posted, but I think it has emerged that Harry is also an entitled bully.

The unpleasant nicknames for QE2's senior staff (or were they Charles' staff?). Who were just doing their job and following the instructions of their employer, but were blamed by Harry for conveying any answers he didn't want to hear. Who were not in a position to have or publicise an equally unpleasant nickname for Harry, no matter how difficult he made their job.

As has emerged from his RAVEC court case, some of the 'men in grey suits' supposedly undermining him were actually trying to protect him, as per the instructions of their employer.

I think the 'what Meghan wants, Meghan gets' could equally be 'what Harry wants, Harry gets.'

Fantastic post @JJathome you are spot on.

Didn’t Harry physically attack one of his own bodyguards outside a club?

I think some of these family dynamics are not that uncommon among the rest of us; it's just the stage they're on and Hazza blowing the lid off a closed world - which makes this so soapy, toxic and also relatable on the sibling/inlaws/stepmother level.

I'm not a royalist at all but these things seem absolutely likely to be at the heart of it all to me.

That William and Harry were damaged by their parents' divorce, their weird upbringing, their mother's death and their father marrying their beloved mother's perceived nemesis.

The impact of the huge difference between Charles and William's status and wealth and the lower royals of all living generations.

The competitive staff agendas re PR and smearing each other.

That Harry has seemed vulnerable and unstable. Not a good place from which to make such profound life decisions - but he clearly felt that he had no choice.

I think this combination of events is a recipe for the disaster which has unfolded.

Yeah, all of this about Harry - but to treat William like that? His own brother, who lost his Mum too, and witnessed his parents toxic fall out, the one person in the world whose trust he should not have betrayed?
For money. His own brother. What a viper.

Thank you to all of you since Start-up-Repair for your interesting posts. I don't mean what went before wasn't interesting but I've just caught up on the last few hours and some good analysis has been going on.

This

As someone else said, Harry could have married literally anyone on the planet of whatever creed or colour or even sexual orientation and there wouldn’t have been 1% of the trouble caused by Meghan Markle.

I’m not excusing Harry because he seems a bitter and spiteful dullard, but he is Mr Sponge and has soaked up whatever is blasted in his ear.

It’s all the Harry found freedom, Harry is living his best life, I’d lay money that Harry is in deeper need of therapy than ever before. There is no way that he is not in emotional turmoil. He’s just in a position that he has to be right because being wrong would send him into a spiral. Pre Meghan out of the five closest people to him, two have died and two have cancer. Even people who are completely justified to cut family off would more often than not struggle, and apparently Harry never wanted to cut them off and loves them. His supporters are not helping Harry. The fact the thread has turned to this discussion and SM is all about trolling and not the ARO are other examples of the difficulties Harry and Meghan face.