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The royal family

Endgame Part 6

1000 replies

Mymilkshakebringsallthepapstomycar · 23/12/2023 13:57

A turkey, absolute balls of stuffing or a right Christmas cracker? We'll let you decide. Please keep the discussion interesting, civilised and relevant - the Holiday Armadillo is lurking!

Previous thread:

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/the_royal_family/4960903-omid-scobie-endgame-part-5?page=1

Omid Scobie Endgame PART 5 | Mumsnet

A continuing civilised and enjoyable discussion of all things relating to Endgame. Please keep posts on topic - I do not want to have to invoke Ross G...

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/the_royal_family/4960903-omid-scobie-endgame-part-5?page=1

OP posts:
Thread gallery
55
Mylovelygreendress · 24/12/2023 12:35

MaturingCheeseball · 24/12/2023 09:29

The supporters of Harry always think people bought Spare because they’re interested in His Truth and came to it with a positive mindset. Very probably most sales were people wanting to read about dog bowls etc and then chucked it out. Do even supporters have this in their bookshelves? It’s a brave soul who unironically leaves Spare on display.

The charity shop where I volunteer has dozens of copies of Spare which are filling ant least 3 shelves in the back area.
Even reduced to 99p it is not selling .

PopNotPolitics · 24/12/2023 12:45

Apologies if this has been covered, but does anyone think Harry could ever get back into his family's fold now?

Hypothetically, if he divorced MM, returned to the UK, and lived a modest life, do you think William et al would/ could ever trust him again?

For me, I think of the sunken cost fallacy when I see Harry. He's invested everything he has into his marriage, so much so that he can't let it fail now. It's the only thing he has left.

Maireas · 24/12/2023 12:50

It's not just the marriage, is it, @PopNotPolitics ? It's the career of invading his family's privacy, sharing very personal moments and being judgemental and cruel.
I hope the marriage lasts for their sake, as they have young children, but honestly - does he think that after four years of monetising criticisms he'd be welcomed back?
I'm amazed the royals were as civil as they were to them/him at recent events. Terrible behaviour.

JSMill · 24/12/2023 13:52

Maireas · 24/12/2023 12:50

It's not just the marriage, is it, @PopNotPolitics ? It's the career of invading his family's privacy, sharing very personal moments and being judgemental and cruel.
I hope the marriage lasts for their sake, as they have young children, but honestly - does he think that after four years of monetising criticisms he'd be welcomed back?
I'm amazed the royals were as civil as they were to them/him at recent events. Terrible behaviour.

Edited

I suppose though, in that hypothetical scenario, family members would be concerned for him as he'd given up everything for his wife and he was now alone.

FinallyFinalGirl · 24/12/2023 14:14

Maireas · 24/12/2023 12:50

It's not just the marriage, is it, @PopNotPolitics ? It's the career of invading his family's privacy, sharing very personal moments and being judgemental and cruel.
I hope the marriage lasts for their sake, as they have young children, but honestly - does he think that after four years of monetising criticisms he'd be welcomed back?
I'm amazed the royals were as civil as they were to them/him at recent events. Terrible behaviour.

Edited

Weren't stories leaked about Harry by own family though?

FinallyFinalGirl · 24/12/2023 14:15

PopNotPolitics · 24/12/2023 12:45

Apologies if this has been covered, but does anyone think Harry could ever get back into his family's fold now?

Hypothetically, if he divorced MM, returned to the UK, and lived a modest life, do you think William et al would/ could ever trust him again?

For me, I think of the sunken cost fallacy when I see Harry. He's invested everything he has into his marriage, so much so that he can't let it fail now. It's the only thing he has left.

And could he trust them, considering it was reported stories were leaked about him by his own family?

Mylovelygreendress · 24/12/2023 14:19

FinallyFinalGirl · 24/12/2023 14:15

And could he trust them, considering it was reported stories were leaked about him by his own family?

Which stories ?
For the RF to remain relevant and popular , it really wouldn’t be in the best interests to openly criticise a member , especially one of the King’s sons .

Raincloudsonasunnyday · 24/12/2023 14:19

PopNotPolitics · 24/12/2023 12:45

Apologies if this has been covered, but does anyone think Harry could ever get back into his family's fold now?

Hypothetically, if he divorced MM, returned to the UK, and lived a modest life, do you think William et al would/ could ever trust him again?

For me, I think of the sunken cost fallacy when I see Harry. He's invested everything he has into his marriage, so much so that he can't let it fail now. It's the only thing he has left.

It’s a desperately sad situation, now that they have children. Ideally, Meghan and Harry will remain happily married, raise their children successfully in California, and all this brouhaha involving the RF will fade away. The children will grow up to have identities outside of the RF, and west their titles (that their parents have foisted on them) lightly or not at all. You hope for a happy, quiet, even-keeled life for them.

That’s sad for Charles and William though. More for Charles, as the father. Not so painful as a sibling.

They’ve proven themselves untrustworthy and disloyal, and unable to keep their mouths shut. That’s not good as members of any family, let alone a public one, and certainly not when your family = your life’s work (Charles and William). Publicly criticising you = publicly criticising your vocation, all that you’ve sacrificed a quiet life for, the choices you’ve made for your children (talking about George et al), and the livelihoods of lots and lots of people who rely on the RF. There would come a point where it becomes a bigger political (as in, Parliament) issue also.

Given all that’s at stake with a renegade couple like Harry and Meghan, no, I don’t think they’d be welcome. If we ever see either of them again, it would be after an about-turn to beat all about-turns. And, many years down the line.

Most realistically, I think it’ll be a lifetime of sniping and griping from the sidelines. Harry is a literal prince in self-imposed exile. Meghan will forever be hounded by the press. It will be ugly, for a long time. Just staying stable would be tremendously hard work for them.

MrsFinkelstein · 24/12/2023 14:30

FinallyFinalGirl · 24/12/2023 14:14

Weren't stories leaked about Harry by own family though?

Which stories were leaked by his own family?
No one (not even Harry) have said what these stories are.

FinallyFinalGirl · 24/12/2023 15:12

Didn't it come out in court that information was leaked by KP about Meghan to the Daily Mail?

ajandjjmum · 24/12/2023 15:17

FinallyFinalGirl · 24/12/2023 15:12

Didn't it come out in court that information was leaked by KP about Meghan to the Daily Mail?

What specific information?

Maireas · 24/12/2023 15:34

FinallyFinalGirl · 24/12/2023 15:12

Didn't it come out in court that information was leaked by KP about Meghan to the Daily Mail?

Can you give us a link, please?

Maireas · 24/12/2023 15:36

@FinallyFinalGirl - there's no evidence that his own family were leaking stories against him. Why would they? It makes no sense.
I find that very hard to believe.
Maybe phone hacking made Harry wrongly think so?

EdithWeston · 24/12/2023 15:54

FinallyFinalGirl · 24/12/2023 14:14

Weren't stories leaked about Harry by own family though?

Harry asserts that.

But I’ve never seen a good account of which stories he means.

My view is that there has been no briefing against him, rather that the Palaces comms teams, on his exit, ceased the positive image management that they had previously been doing for him.

Maireas · 24/12/2023 15:58

That makes sense, @EdithWeston . Today's Nicholas Witchell article is interesting, he says that they had a good team and a lot of support, but for some reason believed that people were against them.

derxa · 24/12/2023 16:32

Thanks for the new thread

AuroraCake · 24/12/2023 16:50

There was absolutely no evidence they ever briefed against them. And increasingly Harry's ranting about the planting and the leaking looks deranged in absence of any evidence.

Nicholas' assertstion that it may have been handled differently if a younger person was at the helm is a 'what if'. It could be true but being half in half out is not easy to manage.

The nearest thing is the York Princesses with private charity work and turn up at family events and support in big events.

But Meghan and Harry wouldn't have wanted thatcI guess because they wanted the big glamorous stuff like the overseas trips etc.

MrsFinkelstein · 24/12/2023 17:27

FinallyFinalGirl · 24/12/2023 15:12

Didn't it come out in court that information was leaked by KP about Meghan to the Daily Mail?

Not that I'm aware.

Harry's recent court case was for stuff pre-2012, so Meghan wasn't mentioned.

The Judge mentioned Palace briefings being the source of some stories, but only in regards of standard BP press releases, nothing "leaked".

Do you have other information?

Lunde · 24/12/2023 18:19

MrsFinkelstein · 24/12/2023 17:27

Not that I'm aware.

Harry's recent court case was for stuff pre-2012, so Meghan wasn't mentioned.

The Judge mentioned Palace briefings being the source of some stories, but only in regards of standard BP press releases, nothing "leaked".

Do you have other information?

I haven't seen anything about "leaks" - during the some of the hearings there was evidence that some stories originated in different ways for example

  • in formal press statements given by Buckingham Palace - I think the story about him breaking his arm was in this category but approved by his parents
  • events that occurred in public places and the press were tipped off by the public
  • some articles that Harry complained about originated in interviews that Harry himself gave

I think Harry is quite paranoid and believes that every story that he dislikes is due to hacking or leaks - the judge in he recent case against the Mirror alluded to this
Mr Justice Fancourt said: “There was a tendency for the Duke in his evidence to assume that everything published was the product of voicemail interception because phone hacking was rife within Mirror Group at the time. “But phone hacking was not the only journalistic tool at the time, and his claims in relation to the other 18 articles did not stand up to careful analysis.

^^

JSMill · 24/12/2023 18:25

Maireas · 24/12/2023 15:58

That makes sense, @EdithWeston . Today's Nicholas Witchell article is interesting, he says that they had a good team and a lot of support, but for some reason believed that people were against them.

Where is this article?

Lunde · 24/12/2023 18:36

JSMill · 24/12/2023 18:25

Where is this article?

I think it's in the Sunday Times but it's behind a paywall

EdithWeston · 24/12/2023 18:55

Lunde · 24/12/2023 18:36

I think it's in the Sunday Times but it's behind a paywall

Thread here

OP includes a share token link to the article

Interview with Nicholas Witchell in the Times on his retirement as Royal correspondent | Mumsnet

Maireas · 24/12/2023 18:57

Thanks for that, @Lunde . That clarifies it.

mrsmingleton · 24/12/2023 19:40

Late to the party but reporting for duty.😋

JSMill · 24/12/2023 23:34

Thanks @Lunde

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