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The royal family

Omid Scobie Endgame PART 3

1000 replies

Mymilkshakebringsallthepapstotheyard · 01/12/2023 10:32

La Pom Pom Girl is doing the Double Dutch. But who is turning the skipping ropes? Part three/trois/drie of the continuing discussion of Endgame by Omid Scobie. Previous thread:

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/the_royal_family/4951834-omid-scobies-new-book-part-2

Omid Scobie's New Book - PART 2 | Mumsnet

I'm not sure what is the correct etiquette for carrying on a thread, but here we are. Thanks to {mention:BoxedandRibboned} for the original thread....

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/the_royal_family/4951834-omid-scobies-new-book-part-2

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IcedPurple · 05/12/2023 14:46

This is nothing more than DON'T YOU KNOW WHO I AM?

I agree. I think Harry is having a hard time adjusting to his loss in status, self inflicted though it is.

The Home Office has said that special arrangements have been made for Harry, whereby his security needs will be reviewed on a case by case basis. Should a threat be there, he will be provided with the necessary security. That sounds quite generous to me, considering he is a private citizen who chose to live abroad and give up his official role. How can he possibly object to that? He hardly ever visits the country. Should specially trained security professionals be hanging around twiddling their thumbs ready to spring into action on a moment's notice should the Fresh Prince of Montecito decides he wants to pop over?

MrsFinkelstein · 05/12/2023 15:00

cocolocopocos · 05/12/2023 10:36

Are you sure? I thought that turned out to be a rumour. Living next door to W&K would never have worked.

I read that it was Windsor Castle they wanted rooms in? Then HMQ gave them Frogmore instead

Edited

As far as I'm aware it was very definite they were offered KP - I believe an older pair of lower ranking Royals were turfed out to make way and to allow renovations to start.

Then they decided they didn't want to be in London (or next door to W&C).

Mymilkshakebringsallthepapstotheyard · 05/12/2023 15:04

It was the Duke (Queen Elizabeth's cousin) and Duchess of Gloucester who left KP. I don't think they were turfed out, just wanted to downsize. They now live own the estate in a place called The Old Stables. Very Christmassy!

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WinnieTheW0rm · 05/12/2023 15:06

cyclamenqueen · 05/12/2023 12:39

There is some because , although it’s not widely known, Edward and Sophie lived together there in an apartment before they were married . The York girls shared a four bed apartment at St James’ palace before Eugenie and Jack moved to Nott Cott, they seem quite happy with it , on the latest Table Manners podcast she describes driving down to the gatehouse in her pyjamas to collect their Indian takeaway ! I think Beatrice still uses the St James apartment as a London base.

I thought it was Buckingham Palace - lots in the press about how it was then unprecedented for a girlfriend (not yet a fiancee) to have a BP pass and be allowed to stay overnight.

They were both working in London at the time, so living there would be much more convenient than commuting in from Windsor

IcedPurple · 05/12/2023 15:06

MrsFinkelstein · 05/12/2023 15:00

As far as I'm aware it was very definite they were offered KP - I believe an older pair of lower ranking Royals were turfed out to make way and to allow renovations to start.

Then they decided they didn't want to be in London (or next door to W&C).

I doubt it was their decision to make.

And I can't see how anyone would prefer the relatively modest FC to KP. Those 'apartments' are actually spacious town houses, so it's not like they'd have been running into William or Kate when hanging out the laundry.

They took what they were given.

YetMoreNewBeginnings · 05/12/2023 15:08

MrsFinkelstein · 05/12/2023 15:00

As far as I'm aware it was very definite they were offered KP - I believe an older pair of lower ranking Royals were turfed out to make way and to allow renovations to start.

Then they decided they didn't want to be in London (or next door to W&C).

The Gloucesters didn't actually move until after Harry and Megan were in Frogmore.

There was speculation that H&M had been offered their apartment, and they probably were as it's one of the biggest at KP, but the Gloucesters were planning the move to the old stables before H&M got married.

The press got over-excited when some work was done of the roof of A1 speculating it was being done up for H&M, but it just was work that couldn't wait any longer. The Gloucesters were still living there at that point.

IcedPurple · 05/12/2023 15:12

WinnieTheW0rm · 05/12/2023 15:06

I thought it was Buckingham Palace - lots in the press about how it was then unprecedented for a girlfriend (not yet a fiancee) to have a BP pass and be allowed to stay overnight.

They were both working in London at the time, so living there would be much more convenient than commuting in from Windsor

They weren't really 'working in London'. Royal engagements take place all over the country. They did have to be in London for some royal events, but travelling in from Windsor is hardly a great difficulty when you have a fleet of cars at your disposal. The late Queen chose to base herself there much of the time, as do William and Kate. There was no special need for the Sussexes to have a London home.

YetMoreNewBeginnings · 05/12/2023 15:17

IcedPurple · 05/12/2023 15:12

They weren't really 'working in London'. Royal engagements take place all over the country. They did have to be in London for some royal events, but travelling in from Windsor is hardly a great difficulty when you have a fleet of cars at your disposal. The late Queen chose to base herself there much of the time, as do William and Kate. There was no special need for the Sussexes to have a London home.

Edward and Sophie were working in London when Sophie had access to BP pre-marriage.

Raincloudsonasunnyday · 05/12/2023 15:21

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/dec/05/prince-harry-challenges-home-office-over-decision-to-downgrade-security

Whereas the royal racist stuff was essentially tittle tattle, this is actually a substantive issue which is fodder for republicans (of which I'm one!). This is so objectionable, it's breathtaking.

"Ravec should have considered the ‘impact’ that a successful attack on C [the claimant, Harry] would have, bearing in mind his status, background, and profile within the royal family – which he was born into and which he will have for the rest of his life – and his ongoing charity work and service to the public. Ravec should have considered, in particular, the impact on the UK’s reputation of a successful attack on C."

These are arguments for Harry. She is suggesting that Ravec didn't take into account the UK's reputation, implying that Harry has done so, better than the Home Office or Ravec have. If this is the main tenet of the argument, it's that Harry needs protection for the good of the country. Unbelievable.

As for charity work and service to the public: actually speechless. There are people up and down the country who do charity work and devote their lives to service to the public, for a low salary, commuting by public transport, taking sick days, no privileges, limited holidays, sending their children to whatever schools they can access....has he no shame? These are the hands he used to shake when a working royal, these are the people he used to champion as a working royal. To hear him now, he deserves MORE consideration than them, when they're the ones doing the work and he was merely showing up, cutting ribbons, smiling for the photos.

“At the WellChild event, C’s car was interdicted by paparazzi. After the event, X, part of C’s private security team, reported issues with C’s security provision to [redacted], the MPS liaison officer.”

So, apparently Harry's car was intercepted/blocked at the WellChild event where we saw him take a video of the roads around him as he left. The interception was grave enough to warrant the reporting of "issues" to a liaison officer. This strikes me as neither grave nor suggestive of warranting further public funds being spent in protecting him. Let him be blocked. What right does he have to NOT being blocked? Being a prince?

“Ravec failed to follow its own clear policy, it failed to treat the claimant in the way it has treated others, it failed to tell the claimant how he was being treated and why,” Fatima told the court.

Failing to follow policy seems a fair enough argument. Who knows who the "others" are - William, Eugenie etc probably (but see below, presumably they all respect deadlines set by the Home Office). Failing to tell him how he was being treated is not an argument: the government has an absolute right to take decisions - which are open to judicial review, such as this - but there's no entitlement to reasoning or an explanation beyond whatever is given by that very government. Just ask anyone who's been turned down for citizenship, UC, even had a parking ticket imposed. You get one line, from a checklist, and that's it. It is what it is. Again, who does he think he is to be entitled to this type of preferential treatment? (And if he thinks this is bad, he has no idea how much worse it is in his adopted country).

“It is judged to be right in principle that the allocation of finite public resources which results from protective security provided by the state be allocated to individuals who are acting in the interests of the state through their public role.”

This is from the barrister for the Home Office. There's nothing anyone can argue with here. It is what it is. Harry is not acting in the interests of the state because he stopped being a working royal. He has no public role. Doing Invictus and WellChild events does not equal a public role - otherwise, every charity worker has a public role. Having your photo in the tabloids doesn't equal a public role, otherwise everybody in the Daily Mail has a public role. All that's left to distinguish him from any celebrity who does the occasional charity work is that he's a prince. That's what it boils down to.

Referring to the WellChild event, Eadie said that Ravec required requests for protective security on a case-by-case basis to be made with 28 days’ notice and only 19 days’ notice had been given in that case.

He doesn't even want to comply with the rules! He thinks he can say "jump" and the Home Office will do his bidding to his personal timetable!

I've spent too long thinking about this puffed up, arrogant, entitled, twat. I'm off to do something more meaningful - the ironing.

Prince Harry challenges Home Office over decision to downgrade security

High court in London hears that wider impact of an attack on the duke should have been taken into account

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/dec/05/prince-harry-challenges-home-office-over-decision-to-downgrade-security

Maireas · 05/12/2023 15:24

Thanks for that, @Raincloudsonasunnyday . Absolutely extraordinary. I agree with your sentiments in the matter - he does not have a public role, by choice. Such arrogance and entitlement.

Lunde · 05/12/2023 15:25

IcedPurple · 05/12/2023 15:12

They weren't really 'working in London'. Royal engagements take place all over the country. They did have to be in London for some royal events, but travelling in from Windsor is hardly a great difficulty when you have a fleet of cars at your disposal. The late Queen chose to base herself there much of the time, as do William and Kate. There was no special need for the Sussexes to have a London home.

Didn't Sophie continue to work in her PR firm for several years after marriage - until she was caught up in the tabloid "fake sheikh" scam?

IcedPurple · 05/12/2023 15:29

Lunde · 05/12/2023 15:25

Didn't Sophie continue to work in her PR firm for several years after marriage - until she was caught up in the tabloid "fake sheikh" scam?

I misunderstood and thought the 'they' was referrring to the Sussexes.

MrsDanversGlidesAgain · 05/12/2023 15:30

These are arguments for Harry. She is suggesting that Ravec didn't take into account the UK's reputation, implying that Harry has done so, better than the Home Office or Ravec have. If this is the main tenet of the argument, it's that Harry needs protection for the good of the country. Unbelievable

It's on a par with his assertion that he needed to make sure HM had the right people around her - because he's the favourite, he's the only one qualified and able to look after her and it all depends on him..

I've spent too long thinking about this puffed up, arrogant, entitled, twat

I'd call myself broadly supportive of the monarchy but that (and the rest of your post) pretty much sums him and his claims up.

IcedPurple · 05/12/2023 15:30

So, apparently Harry's car was intercepted/blocked at the WellChild event where we saw him take a video of the roads around him as he left.

There were no 'paps' 'intercepting' his car. We all saw the footage. He and his wife are living in the Diana era. "Paparazzi" don't really exist in that way now, which is why they had to invent 'pap shots' for their 'documentary'.

All that's left to distinguish him from any celebrity who does the occasional charity work is that he's a prince. That's what it boils down to.

Yes, and the HO have acknowledged that by granting him a special status whereby his security needs will be assessed on a case by case basis. Very generous and reasonable.

He doesn't even want to comply with the rules! He thinks he can say "jump" and the Home Office will do his bidding to his personal timetable!

He wants what his brother has. That is, and always has been, his problem.

He rarely visits Britain and spends the minimum time possible when he does. So why go to all this trouble? It's not about safety. It's about status.

Raincloudsonasunnyday · 05/12/2023 15:36

Final point: imagine having as your status, profile and background that you're born into and will have for the rest of your life, one of any of the young black boys in the UK today at the bottom of the socio-economic ladder. Boys born in SE13 rather than SW1. Lads born into estates rife with drug and firearm problems; on or close to the poverty line; widowed parent and maybe a step-parent; underfunded schools and nothing by way of recreation; boys racially profiled by the Met police who are target them rather than protect them; boys who have to work and work and work to escape even marginally the miserable clutches of the "status, profile and background" they've been born into.

Royal racists, talking about the colour of Archie's skin? This man's hypocrisy knows no bounds, and this situation is so fucked up it beggars belief. He has no, ZERO, understanding of the world and he dares pontificate??

Mymilkshakebringsallthepapstotheyard · 05/12/2023 15:44

I don't know if anyone has posted this CNN article from 2013, where Catherine and William's future children's looks are being speculated upon. Catherine's commoner genes darkening the gene pool, apparently!

https://edition.cnn.com/2013/07/03/health/royal-baby-appearance/index.html

What -- and who -- will the royal baby look like? | CNN

Bets are already being placed on the appearance of the royal baby – the future king or queen of England.

https://edition.cnn.com/2013/07/03/health/royal-baby-appearance/index.html

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Serenster · 05/12/2023 15:59

"Ravec should have considered the ‘impact’ that a successful attack on C [the claimant, Harry] would have, bearing in mind his status, background, and profile within the royal family – which he was born into and which he will have for the rest of his life – and his ongoing charity work and service to the public. Ravec should have considered, in particular, the impact on the UK’s reputation of a successful attack on C."

Ravec’s whole purpose is to allocate the scarce resource of state-funded security on a risk-based basis. So I imagine that determining the right approach to a “high risk low probability” event like an attack on Prince Harry acting as a private citizen is absolutely what they have done.

There are all sorts of mitigants that can be applied to such risks, including looking for early warning signs* and considering near misses carefully. The answer is almost never to treat high impact low probability events exactly the same as higher probability events - because that is not actually managing risks at all! So Harry’s complaint is not that Ravec is not doing its job properly, it’s that it’s doing its job but he doesn’t like the outcome.

*Not that I would ever expect them to confirm this, but it’s implicit in Ravec’s stance of keeping Harry’s position under review that the Security Services are continuing to monitor threats against the Sussexes.

Raincloudsonasunnyday · 05/12/2023 16:02

Final, final word (promise!): these arguments are Harry proving that when you're accustomed to privilege, equality feels like oppression (or rather when you're accustomed to privilege, having a couple of those privileges removed feels like deadly oppression).

Mymilkshakebringsallthepapstotheyard · 05/12/2023 16:04

his ongoing charity work and service to the public.

Is he giving full disclosure of which of these appearances are truly charitable and which are paid for appearances?

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MrsDanversGlidesAgain · 05/12/2023 16:04

I have to admire the chutzpah of a KC instructing RAVEC on how to do their job and what they should be doing. I bet that's going down well.

Maireas · 05/12/2023 16:06

I think that's the main point about Harry, really @Raincloudsonasunnyday . Coming to terms with the change in his status and privilege because of decisions he has made about his role, work, and country of domicile. It's very clear that they wanted things to continue as they were, with titles, status, wealth and privilege, yet live in Montecito and pursue lucrative contracts.

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Maireas · 05/12/2023 16:10

Good grief. This is someone who thinks the kitchen bin spoke to him.
If I was a US citizen I'd be very afraid.

MrsDanversGlidesAgain · 05/12/2023 16:12

Mymilkshakebringsallthepapstotheyard · 05/12/2023 16:08

There's one suggestion in a recent Forbes magazine article that Harry's going to start advising the US State Dept on national security matters. I shit you not. I just hope he's not been at the mushrooms when he's at it.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/craighooper/2023/12/01/in-a-royal-reboot-prince-harry-and-meghan-have-a-future-in-defense/

Sorry, but that's hilarious. Like, really funny. Operative word being 'could,' here.

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