Grifters indeed! Can we have a lift Joe?

[ThePoshUns]

H&M asked if they could have a lift home on AF1 after HMQs funeral.
Environmentally friendly sure, but makes them look grabby and entitled again. Makes for a good story though.

Maybe she doesn’t really know who she is? Laurence Olivier was apparently a hollow man in his personal life. When he wasn’t acting there was no one at home. It’s quite common with actors.

Harry is currently suing ANL for defamation over an article about his legal battle with the U.K. government regarding his security arrangements. The article, published in the Daily Mail in February last year, suggested that Harry had tried to keep his legal battle with the U.K. government a secret, and when it was clear that it could not be conducted without publicity, made an offer to pay for the costs himself so he’d look better (the court papers show this offer hadn’t been made until after the court case was filed, so the interpretation the Mail put on it is their opinion).

Here’s my post on this topic, @MrsMaxDeWinter

I note that the final words “the interpretation the Mail put on it is their opinion” is completely borne out by the extract from the judgement I quoted above, by the way (“The defamatory flavour is supplied by the criticism… I have found this criticism to be an expression of an opinion”).

Please point out what’s inaccurate?

Btw I saw that the leak may have come from the White House, and was a “stop bugging us” warning: Joe and Jill do not want to be besties with them. That sounds plausible. They don't want to be seen taking sides in what is essentially a family row. Also King Charles is head of state of a country which is an ally of the USA. I'm not sure I believe the story though

@derxa

Harry so tight, I can believe it

I am sorry to hear that you tire of me talking from my perspective as a black woman, but I am afraid there is not much I can do about that, because that is my perspective on the world. As far as I know, Mumsnet is not for white posters only either. Unlike the case with gender (and sex according to some) in the western world, I can't switch off my being black suddenly start identifying as a white person just so that you tire less of my posts.

The only solution really is that you don't have to read my posts if they tire you so.

On to your main point, my hunch has always been that what bonded Harry and Meghan was in part their dysfunctional families. If Thomas Jr is correct that his father and Meghan's mother separated because Thomas Sr used to pay for sex with prostituted women in Thailand, and if my reading of TS as a recovering (and frequently lapsing) alcoholic is true, Meghan did not have the rosy picture perfect childhood she projects. Thomas has shown that he can resort to emotional blackmail when it suits him. It cannot have been easy being his wife, or daughter.

Samantha is also said to have referred to Doria as "the maid", and even Thomas Sr has said the older children did not like her attempts to establish boundaries and structure when she first married Thomas.

Meghan is however a Type A personality, with a "can do" attitude. I suspect that she has curated away the unpleasant side of her childhood.

I now think that Meghan’s American acting and publicity experience which everyone assumed would be such an asset - after Kate’s very shy and awkward first few years - was the main thing that sunk her image when she was in the UK.

She had spent so long perfecting and training herself for the ‘Hollywood’ publicity system that it was ingrained in her muscle memory and she had no concept of how different being filmed and photographed by the media was going to come across.

Even the most famous Hollywood stars have to maximize their publicity appearances to guarantee the best coverage - they’ll likely get one good image in the papers and magazines and have to make sure it’s a good one.

So knowing immediately where the cameras are, knowing your best side and the best light for you and being able to pose perfectly in a split second is essential.

The problem is that looks really fake outside the Hollywood bubble especially if you are the only one doing it.

If you have a gaggle of actors on a red carpet the posing, looking intensely down the camera lenses, Demi Moore style pregnancy bump poses etc, all look right at home - it’s expected.

Here’s one example where it looks to me as though Meghan’s muscle memory of actress posing kicked in.

When her bump started to really show she often had a long coat on during engagements - if you take a snap of someone pregnant with an outer garment on from the side they look fat. If the coat is flicked backwards to reveal a pregnancy bump they don’t look bulky but cutely pregnant.

The problem Meghan had was she forgot that there was also going to be lots of film footage, not just one still image. So while she’s on an engagement talking to people she was continually flicking the coat backwards and always on the side of the clicking cameras. She did it on several different occasions.

When people noticed that it made them feel that she was being very shallow and not concentrating on the job on hand.

I actually think it was just so ingrained that she didn’t even realize she was doing it.

Similar to the cringey engagement shot pose.

Spotify don’t seem to agree with your assessment of her can do attitude, and they have worked with her, rather than spending their days just reading about her

What is the 'cringey engagement shot pose'?

I thought they looked lovely together.

Someone saying "the minute I saw her I knew she wasn't right for our royal family" would lead me to believe her being a poc has something to do with it?
Why else?

People don’t necessarily mean “on sight” though do they? They mean on first impression. It isn’t hard to form a view about someone quite quickly, based on how they express and conduct themselves. Interviewers do it all the time.

Not the official portraits with the fancy ball gown ones I thought those looked lovely.

It was the press call in the garden with the white coat. It was very clingy and Hollywood red carpet posing. It just gave me the cringe and I was thrilled for them about the actual engagement and loved the idea of the Fab Four and all that at the time.

But I remember thinking how ‘acted’ and fake that press call looked and then then the engagement interview also had this off feel of acting about it. I put it all down to nerves at the time.

I didn't like the ballgown pictures, she seemed very self conscious about the bodice on the dress, so the poses were a bit odd, imo. I thought the white coat ones were ok, although I didn't like the shoes.

Lol! I suppose my feelings were mostly about the posing - it’s still a bit cringy in the photo shoot ones - for everyone including us mere mortals - but seems to be the thing.

Engagement photo shoots and maternity shoots all seem to do a standard series of cuddle poses or bump wrapping.

Beatrice and Edo looked adorable in their engagement photos but they did the cuddle pose too.

I really admire you for staying calm despite some emm sarcastic posts .

The problem Meghan had was she forgot that there was also going to be lots of film footage, not just one still image. So while she’s on an engagement talking to people she was continually flicking the coat backwards and always on the side of the clicking cameras. She did it on several different occasions.

I had made the same observation previously @wordler about how she often placed one hand to her cheek or around her face in a situation where she was being photographed (arriving at events, for example). It’s a great tactic for still photos, as it frames and draws attention to the face and creates really arresting images (see below for some examples - honestly, I’ve been tempted to try it myself 🤣).

It looks decidedly odd and unnatural however in real life when you exit a car, sweep your hair back and then leave your hand cupped to your cheek and walk ten paces towards the greeting party with your hand staying clamped in the same position, as she did when arriving at Eugenie’s wedding. I watched it live, and was really taken aback.

None of this is a criticism of Meghan - as you have said it showed how she’d absolutely learned how to work a red carpet and pose for photos. Those were vital skills for her previous life - and she was very good at them. It just illustrates the culture clash between her old and new life, though.

FFS - this is what makes these boards so frustrating and annoying.

Meghan used techniques she had clearly learned as part of the actress graft to get great still pictures - there’s loads of actual evidence of that.

It just looked odd when transplanted to a role where that level of hustling for good publicity is not needed.

At no point have I said or do I think that she needed to have no opinions or confidence.

I am sorry to hear that you tire of me talking from my perspective as a black woman, but I am afraid there is not much I can do about that, because that is my perspective on the world. As far as I know, Mumsnet is not for white posters only either. Unlike the case with gender (and sex according to some) in the western world, I can't switch off my being black suddenly start identifying as a white person just so that you tire less of my posts.

Well I didn’t and wouldn’t ask you to “switch off being black” and I certainly didn’t assert MN was for “white posters only” obviously. In fact I gave absolutely no indication I held such views so am unsure why you would make this up, but in the same way I am permitted to express how wearisome I find having to defend against accusations of racism & constantly justify my critical appraisal of a person and their behaviour just because they happen to be of colour. You may see your entire life through that lens and that is your choice, I’d never question your perception of your own individual experiences around such matters, but the rest of us do not have to accept your speaking for us on why we perceive another person of colour negatively, and it doesn’t make us racist if we disagree with you, or Meghan for that matter.

On to your main point, my hunch has always been that what bonded Harry and Meghan was in part their dysfunctional families. If Thomas Jr is correct that his father and Meghan's mother separated because Thomas Sr used to pay for sex with prostituted women in Thailand, and if my reading of TS as a recovering (and frequently lapsing) alcoholic is true, Meghan did not have the rosy picture perfect childhood she projects. Thomas has shown that he can resort to emotional blackmail when it suits him. It cannot have been easy being his wife, or daughter

I had no idea about any of this! Without going into too much detail, I have some experience of such behaviour from a parent and if this is true, then all I can say is poor Meghan. I have to say though I have never criticised her for cutting her family off. It is rare for there not to be an extremely good reason for cutting a parent off ime. There is video of Meghan as a child where she looks with attitude but also I think quite warily at her father as he is filming her. All the comments are attacking her and what a spoilt brat she was even then blah blah blah, but I didn’t see that. I perceived her to be angry but perhaps also a little frightened and trying to push back on him without going too far. It was very telling, to me anyway.

@MrsMaxDeWinter also I’m not sure why your reply was deleted - it was annoying but I didn’t think it broke any rules - I didn’t report it.

Sorry Serenster, I just find your post mean.

You say you are not criticising Meghan but then say how you were taken aback at her putting her hand to her face as its 'odd and unnatural'.

Honestly, if we were to criticise every hand movement of Kate there would be outrage.
I just think this sounds petty and mean.
Who doesn't want to make the best of themselves in pictures?

I try. doesn't work
I read about turning to one side in a group shot, and my kids say 'Mum, why are you standing funny' 😂

That’s a great example - may try it but perhaps it only works if you have a very pretty face? And delicate arms - I’d probably look ridiculous.

Happy to disagree on race and racism on Mumsnet and the wider UK society, and to avoid discussing this with each other, but I am happy to agree on the psychology of Meghan's family.

I am very sorry to hear about your experiences. Mine are similar, which is why this has always struck me about Meghan's family. Interestingly, I had the same reading of that video that you did.

You will be annoyed with my next comment because I am speaking here as a black woman, but the racial dynamics of the Markle family have troubled me from the beginning. It is really, really uncomfortable to see the sense of "ownership" Thomas feels over his daughter. Almost as though he owns her, he made her, she owes him, she would be nothing without him, something he does not say of his white children. It feels very, very off.

Add to that he was the main source for the Bower book, he is on speed dial with Piers and Dan Wootton, and It just looks like white men of a certain age ganging up on this mixed race woman. That he is her father makes it really, really vile.

It wasn’t mean at all . It wasn’t a criticism , it was a very shrewd observation.

I would be very surprised if you did report it @wordler because I was clearly being sarcastic and did not break Talk Guidelines. But don't worry about the deletion, have reposted my comment here.

The bottom line is that EVERYTHING about Meghan was annoying to some people, from the very beginning.

Short of not being an American with an American accent (which sounds fake), speaking like an emoting Californian (who sounds fake), holding her hand to her cheek (which looks fake) speaking with confident enthusiasm (which sounds fake) the only thing she could have done to please some is to jump into a time machine, travel back in time and marry Harry at 19, when she, like Diana, was completely unformed.